rec.autos.simulators

Eric, there is no incompatibility. This is the first we've heard of this.
What are your controller panel and core.ini settings? When the wheel is
working, does it feel okay?

Slot

Set the spring rating to zero in the Guillemot applet

Let GPL handle all the FF settings

Have to reset it for other games though

Tony

There seems to be an incompatibility of Sierra GPL 1.2.0.1 and the Guillemot
Ferrari Force Feedback wheel:

Force Feedback works fine for a while. Then one of two things happens. 1:
The resistance when turning the wheel right disappears. Or 2: The resistance
when turning the wheel right suddenly is much higher, centering the wheel
even when the car is standing still or laying upside down. When turning the
wheel left, forces are rendered as usual. Shift-R or returning to the pits
does not help. After canceling the race and starting a new one, everything
works fine again.

My configuration:

German GPL, updated to 1.2.0.1,  OpenGL patch installed.
Ferrari Force Feedback wheel with driver update 1.2.3 installed, connected
via USB
Windows 98SE, DirectX 7.0a

Eric

Agreed...this is the answer.

Marc.

% Set the spring rating to zero in the Guillemot applet

GPL automatically turns this off I thought (unless you have it checked
as always on).

% Let GPL handle all the FF settings

% Have to reset it for other games though

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

% Agreed...this is the answer.

Doesn't make any difference with my wheel....

% > Set the spring rating to zero in the Guillemot applet
% >
% > Let GPL handle all the FF settings
% >
% > Have to reset it for other games though
% >
% > Tony
% >


% > > There seems to be an incompatibility of Sierra GPL 1.2.0.1 and the
% > Guillemot
% > > Ferrari Force Feedback wheel:
% > >
% > > Force Feedback works fine for a while. Then one of two things happens.
% 1:
% > > The resistance when turning the wheel right disappears. Or 2: The
% > resistance
% > > when turning the wheel right suddenly is much higher, centering the
% wheel
% > > even when the car is standing still or laying upside down. When turning
% > the
% > > wheel left, forces are rendered as usual. Shift-R or returning to the
% pits
% > > does not help. After canceling the race and starting a new one,
% everything
% > > works fine again.
% > >
% > > My configuration:
% > >
% > > German GPL, updated to 1.2.0.1,  OpenGL patch installed.
% > > Ferrari Force Feedback wheel with driver update 1.2.3 installed,
% connected
% > > via USB
% > > Windows 98SE, DirectX 7.0a
% > >
% > >
% > > Eric
% > >
% >
% >

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I agree! The spring rate is only for games that don't have FF unless you
check the box 'always on'. Spring rate setting makes no difference in GPL.
Iain

Gents, I think Eric has abandoned this thread,  but you can't just say that
turning the spring rate to zero will cure his problem when you don't know
what his settings are. Maybe it's already zero, except that there is no
spring 'rate' to adjust. There is Spring Gain and Default Spring. GPL
doesn't use Spring Force programming, so Spring Gain should have no effect
except that it could introduce spurious, unwanted effects. To be safe, turn
this off in GPL. Damping Gain, however, does work in GPL to add viscosity to
the wheel and does this without loss of detail. Adding Damper Gain to get
more 'stiffness' in your wheel is a far better alternative than clamping
your effects by using a low  Torque value (like 40 or 80) in GPL's core.ini
to achieve the same effect. Default Spring also works in GPL when the
'always on' box is checked. GPL's core.ini settings should work with, not
against, your controller panel settings. All the settings are also very
wheel dependant, not just brand dependant. If your wheel is 3 months old and
you're still using the same settings you used when it was new, you could be
missing something.

Slot

 < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Slot,

just tried setting spring gain to 0. This in fact did cure the problem!
There is also a previous post by Mats Lofkvist who had the same problem and
same solution. It really seems there is a bug that will sometimes result in
a spring force command sent to the driver that does not get deleted until
the driver is reset when canceling the race.

Now that the forces aren't completely messed up anymore I can start
optimizing the settings. I'm still using default values in core.ini. I'm
surprised that damping gain in the controller panel should have an effect in
GPL. Some have said that GPL only used vector forces?

Eric

Hi Eric,
Yup, it's always a good idea to turn the Spring Gain down in GPL. I don't
really think it's a bug, as in something that can be fixed, just something
that gets by DirectX on some computers when you try introducing a factor
that shouldn't be there.

GPL does use Constant Force programming (Vector Forces in I-force Studio)
which, of course, is why the Spring Gain should have no effect, but Damper
Gain is not, ummm..... Anti-Spring Gain ( for lack of a better term). It's
independent of  spring forces. Unfortunately, damper is a term that seems to
have several meanings in games, and isn't always the same thing as the
Damper in Windows controller panel. The controller panel Damper setting adds
viscosity to your wheel. Kind of like going to the beach and standing waist
deep in water, then trying to run to shore. It's not the same as Default
Spring either. Default Spring adds a constant pressure to both sides of the
wheel and makes it harder to turn, but whether you turn the wheel rapidly or
slowly, default spring feels the same. With damping, the wheel will turn
harder if you try to turn it fast, and have almost no effect when turning it
slowly. Like walking slowly in the water isn't that hard, but running is.

You may get some ideas here: http://home.maine.rr.com/deroy/howto.htm

Glad to see you didn't abandon the thread.

Slot

Slot,

I thought the damping gain in the controller panel would only be relevant if
the game sends damping forces to the controller? Does GPL really generate
damping forces in addition to the vector forces?

Anyway, it'll be a while before I can do more testing as my Ferrari wheel
just quit generating any forces at all (after only about 15 hours of use).
Reinstalled the drivers and I still don't even get forces in the "Test
Forces" section of the controller panel.

Eric

You definately feel the damper from controller panel. Quite strong.

Sorry to hear the wheel quit ;..(    With the beatings FF devices take, I'm
surprised it doesn't happen more often. Does applying default spring have
any effect, or is it just plain dead?

Slot

You feel the damper in Control Panel, but not in games where FF is used. It
is switched off and left to the control of the FF effects.
Iain

It went completely dead, I'll return it today...

Eric

I've been following various threads on the problems with the Ferrari in
the hope of a solution, and have pretty much had to give up playing GPL
because of the wheel. I get exactly the same problems as Eric.

Always happens after about 10-15 minutes, and the steering goes very
heavy, and sometimes also feels like there is a wide 'lump' to steer
over at the centre of the wheel.

Last night when this happened, I exited GPL with the wheel turned hard
right where it stayed, and went to the controller panel and when
entering properties, the wheel centered, with the correct (zero)
resistance when steering. But on exiting the panel, the wheel went back
hard right, with the heavy resistance. It's as if there is a FF command
the wheel gets stuck with, and whilst it can be cleared, the controller
panel returns the wheel to the state it was in before entering it. I
can only assume it is a bug in the wheel drivers, as no other FF wheel
seems to experience the problems.

I too have the updated FF drivers, and they made no difference. Same
spec as Eric apart from English GPL and using a V3 3000.

I bought the wheel for GPL and it's really annoying to have it ruin the
game for me.

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