rec.autos.simulators

Any advice appreciated.

PJ

I've only ever played SBK 2000, and I used a Microsoft Sidewinder FF
joystick. Worked great. That was before I got my wheel, so I've never tried
a motorbike game with a wheel. Best results might be joystick for steering
and shifting, pedals for gas and brake. Unless you want to spend a bunch of
cash on a motorcycle-style controller (they do exist).

I think the wheel has too long a "throw" to be useful as a motorbike
controller - you need something "twitchier".

If you find something that works well, please let me know. I love the
game but I never found a control method that was acceptable.

--
__________________________
Todd Walker
http://twalker.d2g.com
__________________________

Brad

I use a Logitech Wingman FF joystick, but it's not optimal either. Slow
turns are disproportionately difficult.

Jan.
=---

Not possible, the yaw of the wheel/stick mostly controls the lean angle of
the bike in all games I've tried, not the "steering angle" of the head.

That's the difficulty in modelling bikes and bike controllers in games.
"Steering" a bike is not accomplished by a single component motion and
certainly not entirely by manipulating a control on the bike. The rider
intiates the turn and "snaps" it over then balances himself as the throttle
picks up the bike and controls the exit.

If, as you suggest, the games would model the initiation by the rider and
the computers would handle the lean/line as the player applies the throttle,
I think they would become unplayable as there's no way the programmers can
relay the necessary feedback for the player to pull this off correctly and
consistently.

My 2c,

Jan.
=---

http://www.ergenic.com/english_version/frame(uk).htm

http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcbeware/controller.html

for Playstation:
http://us.thrustmaster.com/products/lookproduct.php3?productid=152&sk...
Station

I can't say if it's any good, I've never tried this sort of controller.

Ice D

"Rob Adams" > I think the wheel has too long a "throw" to be useful as a
motorbike
  some users found good results by limiting the wheel travel or narrowing
the available travel via wheel software.  If you cut the available travel
down to just a few degrees, instead of the  180 or more that most wheels
have, then you should have a pretty reactive wheel for a bike sim.
dave henrie

I have tried my MS FF joystick and found that there is too much distance
between full left and full right steer. I can't steer quick enough with
it.

--
__________________________
Todd Walker
http://twalker.d2g.com
__________________________

http://www.superbikeschool.com/us/video_clips/nobs.rm

The No B.S. bike is the No Body-Steering bike rigged with an additional (fixed, non-moveable) set of clip-ons shown in use in the first half of the video.  Note that the rider is shifting his weight all over and bike doesn't move much.  In the 2nd half of the video, the rider, with minimal force, pushes the "real" clip-ons forward on the left to turn left, and right - to turn right.  This is counter-steering.

For a text description of counter-steering, and how/why it works:
http://www.superbikeschool.com/us/news_room/press_releases/no_bs_bike...
and
http://www.msgroup.org/TIP048.html
Although I disagree with some minor points raised in this article, I agree with the core points.

But to bring it back to the topic, I'd like to see one of the two motorcycle controllers I'm aware (Ducati markets one, can't remember the name/brand of the other one I'm thinking of) be configurable to reflect counter-steering ("push left, go left").

--

Philip D'Amato

<snip>
<snip>

Same point, different explanation.

Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly enough and I can't watch the clip
which illustrates your argument on this computer, but I hold "turning" a
bike is a combination of control input, lean angle and rider movement,
something which is not easily mapped to a single axis of a game controller.
Sure you can nudge around a pothole using countersteering alone, but if you
don't adjust your body to go with the bike you won't do much cornering at
speed. Surely you don't keep the same body position while braking, turning
in, through max lean angle and back out? Surely you don't wait for the bike
to straigthen up and then "sit up"  from your max lean angle
position? -Balance, not upsetting the bike by your weight and movements, is
the key to keeping it on and yourself off the black stuff. As for lean
angle, the quicker you build it, the less you need for a given radius and
speed. I.e. transitioning quickly from upright to the desired lean angle is
benificial... "snapping it over" is the term used, I believe.

Jan.
=---

If you're not familiar with the Hammerhead, here's a brief review:

http://www.joy-stick.net/reviews/gamepads/hammerhead.htm

-- JB

Wayne Hutchison

I've used a *pair* of joysticks for car sims--the right for steering (L&R),
the left for throttle/brakes (fore&aft).  It looks (and--at first--feels)
kinda gooney, like playing the theramin, but works pretty well.  Yer right,
a stick is a lot twitchier; several of the early GPL Hot Lap meisters used a
stick (occasionally in conjunction with pedals) 'cuz you can really flick
the cars around thus.

--Steve