rec.autos.simulators

RASCAR: General Observations

John Simmon

RASCAR: General Observations

by John Simmon » Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:21:34

1) It seems as if people are are over-driving the turns while
   making a low pass. We can't just haul down into a turn
   hoping the guy on the high side backs off or is high enough
   to not be hit as we drift high because we went in too hot.

   Being on the bottom, it's our job to stay as close to the
   apron as possible.  This might mean (gak!) reducing our
   speed more than we really wanted to, but the end result is
   much more prefrrable to the wreck that will ultimately
   happen.

   There's simply not enough "give" going on to compensate for
   the "take".  Practice (offline) will help people learn how
   to pass more effectively.

2) The restarts continue to be a problem. I am not a fan of
   single-file restarts, and yesterday proved to me that they
   really aren't any better than our double-file restarts
   have been in the past.

   The problem up front appears to be fast cars overtaking
   slower cars and then making bonzai passes to get around
   them.  I really have no answer or solution for this.  We
   could say that there shouldn't be any passing until the
   backstretch, but I see that as being just as big of a
   problem.

   Other problems appear to be people not being ready for
   what the car is going to do under sudden acceleration
   with fresh tires and maybe a little body damage.  

   Again, practice will help you become famliar with how
   twitchy the car will get under such conditions.

3) Not racing back to the yellow is kinda weird.  It
   seemed as if nobody was really sure when to back off,
   or how much.  I think we can stay out of trouble here
   if we don't follow immediately behind the person in
   front, and don't radically change our line as we
   approach other cars.  The only problem I see with it
   so far is that it seems to take forever for the entire
   field to catch up to the pace line.

   There's really no way to practice this without actually
   racing against each other, and the whole idea there is
   not to even have any cautions - a paradox, if ever
   there was one.

4) I watched the replay from yesterday's race, and noticed
   that even with severe body damage, I was STILL able to
   turn 40.0xx times.  There are several lessons to be
   learned here.

   A) Damage physics in the sim truly suck. There's NO WAY
      I should have been able to go that fast with what
      amounts to no sheet metal aft of the rear tires.  My
      spoiler was pressed right up against the back edge of
      the rear window, and my front end was caved in as
      well.  

   B) Even with severe rear damage, you are still fairly
      (and unrealistically) competitive due to the sucky
      physics.  There's no reason to quit simply because
      you are pretty bad off as far as damage goes.

   C) The car handles differently, so you have to change
      your line and brake, lift, and acceleration points.

   D) Practice will help you become accustomed to changes
      in the car due to damage.

5) I realize I've become a bit acidic in my post-race
   discussions, and I'll try to behave in the future.

--
=========================================================
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  http://www.racesimcentral.net/
DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
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DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
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RASCAR Roster
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=========================================================

redTe

RASCAR: General Observations

by redTe » Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:03:11

Is there no end to this guy's arrogance.

Mike Grand

RASCAR: General Observations

by Mike Grand » Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:09:29

Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com

In order to avoid this situation why not just back off a bit on the straight
and allow that car to clear you before entering the corner. Also works great
for those that overdrive late in the race, they go deep and high and you
pass them back low.

My suggestion would be to give lap cars the same consideration you would
lead lap cars. If the car is fast enough there is no need to force a pass
and more often then not you can use that car to help complete a pass
somewhere down the road. Keep in mind that if you were in the same position,
you would want your lap back as well.

Of course the main problem here is smooth acceleration and steady turning.
Make sure when you accelerate that you have grip to the track before you put
the pedal to the floor. Enter the turns smoothly and don't make any sudden
moves.

I would suggest only backing off about 5-10 mph when heading to a yellow
flag. Any more than that and you may get run over. I would rather see racing
back to the caution, but thats not always acceptable under certain
conditions.

- Show quoted text -

lee.ward

RASCAR: General Observations

by lee.ward » Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:30:52

Thanks very much for your comments, John

I, for one, would like to hear them, as having only just started with N2002,
all advice/tips etc are very welcome.

Cheers Lee

> ----- Original Message -----

> Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators
> Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 2:21 PM
> Subject: RASCAR: General Observations

> > 1) It seems as if people are are over-driving the turns while
> >    making a low pass. We can't just haul down into a turn
> >    hoping the guy on the high side backs off or is high enough
> >    to not be hit as we drift high because we went in too hot.

> >    Being on the bottom, it's our job to stay as close to the
> >    apron as possible.  This might mean (gak!) reducing our
> >    speed more than we really wanted to, but the end result is
> >    much more prefrrable to the wreck that will ultimately
> >    happen.

> >    There's simply not enough "give" going on to compensate for
> >    the "take".  Practice (offline) will help people learn how
> >    to pass more effectively.

> > 2) The restarts continue to be a problem. I am not a fan of
> >    single-file restarts, and yesterday proved to me that they
> >    really aren't any better than our double-file restarts
> >    have been in the past.

> >    The problem up front appears to be fast cars overtaking
> >    slower cars and then making bonzai passes to get around
> >    them.  I really have no answer or solution for this.  We
> >    could say that there shouldn't be any passing until the
> >    backstretch, but I see that as being just as big of a
> >    problem.

> >    Other problems appear to be people not being ready for
> >    what the car is going to do under sudden acceleration
> >    with fresh tires and maybe a little body damage.

> >    Again, practice will help you become famliar with how
> >    twitchy the car will get under such conditions.

> > 3) Not racing back to the yellow is kinda weird.  It
> >    seemed as if nobody was really sure when to back off,
> >    or how much.  I think we can stay out of trouble here
> >    if we don't follow immediately behind the person in
> >    front, and don't radically change our line as we
> >    approach other cars.  The only problem I see with it
> >    so far is that it seems to take forever for the entire
> >    field to catch up to the pace line.

> >    There's really no way to practice this without actually
> >    racing against each other, and the whole idea there is
> >    not to even have any cautions - a paradox, if ever
> >    there was one.

> > 4) I watched the replay from yesterday's race, and noticed
> >    that even with severe body damage, I was STILL able to
> >    turn 40.0xx times.  There are several lessons to be
> >    learned here.

> >    A) Damage physics in the sim truly suck. There's NO WAY
> >       I should have been able to go that fast with what
> >       amounts to no sheet metal aft of the rear tires.  My
> >       spoiler was pressed right up against the back edge of
> >       the rear window, and my front end was caved in as
> >       well.

> >    B) Even with severe rear damage, you are still fairly
> >       (and unrealistically) competitive due to the sucky
> >       physics.  There's no reason to quit simply because
> >       you are pretty bad off as far as damage goes.

> >    C) The car handles differently, so you have to change
> >       your line and brake, lift, and acceleration points.

> >    D) Practice will help you become accustomed to changes
> >       in the car due to damage.

> > 5) I realize I've become a bit acidic in my post-race
> >    discussions, and I'll try to behave in the future.

> > --
> > =========================================================
> > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
> >   http://www.paddedwall.org/john
> > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
> >   http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
> > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
> >   http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
> > RASCAR Roster
> >   http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
> > Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting)
> >   http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

> > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
> > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
> > =========================================================

Eldre

RASCAR: General Observations

by Eldre » Tue, 20 Aug 2002 07:05:39



>>snip the f****** lot<

>Is there no end to this guy's arrogance.

I thought he made some very good points.  Which part did you disagree with, and
why?

Eldred
--
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N2002 Rank:+22.329

Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

John Simmon

RASCAR: General Observations

by John Simmon » Tue, 20 Aug 2002 08:49:25





> >>snip the f****** lot<

> >Is there no end to this guy's arrogance.

> I thought he made some very good points.  Which part did you disagree with, and
> why?

> Eldred

Well, I have this guy killfiled, so I didn't see his post, but
considering I've got him kill-filed, consider the source...

--
=========================================================
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
  http://www.paddedwall.org/john
DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
RASCAR Roster
  http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting)
  http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

Tom Pabs

RASCAR: General Observations

by Tom Pabs » Tue, 20 Aug 2002 14:31:49

RT...

I don't see anything "arrogant" about John's post race comments.  In fact, I
bet you the new guys will find it helpful and probably contains some stuff
they didn't know.  I am not a "new guy"....and I still found everything he
said worth reading, as a "reminder" in many cases.

Seems like you are either over-reacting or have some kind of an "ax to
grind" with John?

TP


John Simmon

RASCAR: General Observations

by John Simmon » Tue, 20 Aug 2002 19:04:48

He does, but I don't know why (maybe I use too many big words)...

I was merely pointing out where we all need work, and that offline
practice can take care of most of the problems.


--
=========================================================
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
  http://www.paddedwall.org/john
DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
RASCAR Roster
  http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting)
  http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

Gerald Moo

RASCAR: General Observations

by Gerald Moo » Tue, 20 Aug 2002 23:30:07


> 3) Not racing back to the yellow is kinda weird.  It
>    seemed as if nobody was really sure when to back off,
>    or how much.  I think we can stay out of trouble here
>    if we don't follow immediately behind the person in
>    front, and don't radically change our line as we
>    approach other cars.  The only problem I see with it
>    so far is that it seems to take forever for the entire
>    field to catch up to the pace line.

If the trouble is behind you, the place to begin dropping (gradually!)
to pace speed should be the s/f line.  You don't have to slow down
before then (and probably shouldnt) and once you cross it, you can
just roll out of the gas and coast.  It doesn't matter if you pass the
pace car or not, as long as you let it catch up to you on that same
lap.  The main thing is to stop RACING other cars and just concentrate
on getting back to the s/f line.

If the trouble is ahead of you, well, good luck!  Avoid the trouble as
best you can and continue to the S/F line.  If you have to slow down a
great deal, try to get out of the racing groove- preferably to the
apron - and stay out till you are up to speed.  If you can make it by
without slowing very much, just take it down a notch and drive on to
the S/F.

Of course if the wreck is in turn 1...  hmm, not as easy as I thought!
 I guess the trouble is really ALWAYS in front of you...

You get a big AMEN from me on this one.

cheers,
Gerald

redTe

RASCAR: General Observations

by redTe » Wed, 21 Aug 2002 00:59:45


You don't know why ?  You want a vivid reminder ??? Arrogant ***

Tom Pabs

RASCAR: General Observations

by Tom Pabs » Wed, 21 Aug 2002 01:10:44

Perfectly said, Gerald.....right on target!

TP



Eldre

RASCAR: General Observations

by Eldre » Wed, 21 Aug 2002 01:27:25


Geez, I didn't get down to 40.xx with a CLEAN car...  Grrr...

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:+8.09
N2002 Rank:+22.329

Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

adsale

RASCAR: General Observations

by adsale » Wed, 21 Aug 2002 05:14:09


> RT...

> I don't see anything "arrogant" about John's post race comments.  In fact, I
> bet you the new guys will find it helpful and probably contains some stuff
> they didn't know.  I am not a "new guy"....and I still found everything he
> said worth reading, as a "reminder" in many cases.

> Seems like you are either over-reacting or have some kind of an "ax to
> grind" with John?

For John Simmons and reddyTeddy here, replace with Tom Pabst and David
Powell....

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

John Simmon

RASCAR: General Observations

by John Simmon » Wed, 21 Aug 2002 06:35:11




> (Gerald Moore) writes:

> >> 4) I watched the replay from yesterday's race, and noticed
> >>    that even with severe body damage, I was STILL able to
> >>    turn 40.0xx times.  There are several lessons to be
> >>    learned here.

> Geez, I didn't get down to 40.xx with a CLEAN car...  Grrr...

(Please don't take this the wrong way) I really am at a loss to explain
why you seem to be so far off the fast pace Eldred, unless you're just
being tooo damn careful, or trying to hard to avoid being treated like a
hockey puck.

I think it's time for you to pull it all the way out and throw it up on
the table with everyone else's so we can all compare sizes.

--
=========================================================
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
  http://www.paddedwall.org/john
DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
RASCAR Roster
  http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
Barbarian Diecast Collector (490+ cars and counting)
  http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

Jan Verschuere

RASCAR: General Observations

by Jan Verschuere » Wed, 21 Aug 2002 07:12:00

Sheesh... there's a race I'd lose. ;-(

Jan.
=---


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