rec.autos.simulators

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I have the Intel DX4-100 overdrive chip and it actually outperforms P-75's
I've seen for Papyrus games. If you do a Pentium, don't settle for less than
120mhz. The 486-120 is not Intel, but probably AMD or Cyrix. You'll also need
a voltage regulator or a mb that supports 3.5 volt power. Be careful and ask A
LOT of questions.

Personally, I'd go for a Pentium, even if only a 75Mhz.  Simply
because  you'll then get PCI bus (useful for connecting fast graphics
cards) and have the choice of swapping the processor for a faster
Pentium at a later date without having to trash the whole motherboard
(plus any VLB cards you get with the 486 board).

As a guide, my brother has a AMD 486-120 machine with a fairly high
spec. Diamond Stealth graphics card.  His friend has a Pentium 75
system. On the Pentium system, Virtual Karts ran fairly smoothly in
SVGA, on the 486 we had to go down to VGA graphics to get an
acceptable framerate.  Someone will correct me on this one I'm sure,
but I do seem to remember reading somewhere (in this group) that ICR 2
takes advantage of the Pentium processor for SVGA mode.  Could be
wrong though.

Steve.

I don't have any experience with racing sims on Pentiums, but I did once
play Doom on a P75 (I have a 486dx2/66.)  The graphics on the Pentium
were MUCH smoother, it was extremely playable.  A 486/120 would certainly
be faster than your 66mhz model, but why not buy the best?  The Pentium
is the best available right now, if you buy the faster 486 you'll just
end up wanting something better in 6 months.  Do yourself a favor and get
a P100 or P133.

BTW:  The 468/120 is not an Intel chip, it's made by Cyrix I believe.  I
remember reading about it in Computer Shopper's tech section.

I don't think you'll find that information is correct.  Who told you,
and on what basis was the testing carried out?

My brother has a PC with a high spec motherboard, DX4-120 processor,
top-range Diamond Stealth GFX card and 16Mb of RAM.

His friend has a low end Olivetti P75, with a basic PCI graphic card
(entry level), with 8Mb RAM.  

Both machines run Windows '95.

They tried out Virtual Karts.  On the 486 machine, it was unplayably
slow in SVGA mode (well, some people would call it playable, but it
wasn't up to the speed I would call comfortable).  However, on the
Pentium system it ran very smoothly.

I wonder if this is because games produced these days are optimised in
some way for the Pentium processor?  I certainly seem to remember a
thread from this newsgroup a few months ago discussing Indy Car Racing
2.  Unless I'm very much mistaken, the extra performance in SVGA mode
over that of NASCAR racing was down to optimised code for the Pentium
processor.  Maybe Rick Genter could confirm this?

Personally, I have a Pentium 120, and even with that machine, I wonder
whether it's going to be up to running those simulations that are just
around the corner (I'm specifically thinking of Grand Prix II).  In
short, don't consider anything less than a Pentium 75.  You may want
to wait a few weeks, as Intel are just releasing two new Pentium
models (150 and 166Mhz I believe).  I'm not suggesting that you should
get these processors, but they may force down the price of the
processors lower in the range.

Steve.

The main thing to bear in mind with the higher end pentiums (and indeed all powerful PCs) is the
concept of balance. To give an example, I originally purchased a P100 system with 16Mb RAM and a
Tseng ET4000/w32p PCI video card. A few weeks later, I was offered a P133 chip, which I duly
bought. However, I have observed NO speed increase in games between the P100 and P133. I
investigated further, using a variety of benchmarking and speedtesting software, and found that
the original P100 system was speed limited by the video throughput. Putting a quicker CPU in did
not speed up the system because the P100 was already idle some of the time waiting for the video
to catch up. All I have achieved is increasing my CPU slack time. So, one of the main things to
consider when buying a pentium is the bus speed. The P100 and P133 both have bus speed of 66MHz,
and these are preferable to the P75 and P120, which have bus speeds of 50MHz and 60MHz
respectively. Although a faster CPU will be able to carry out many functions quicker than a slow
one, in terms of games playing you want the fastest video throughput you can get, in which case
pick a pentium with a 66MHz bus speed. Ideally, a more powerful video card based on VRAM or WRAM
would help reduce the video bottleneck. Bottom line - don't buy a ninja processor if you haven't
got the video sub-system to back it up.

--
***************************************************************************
*               Paul L. Finnemore, Apprentice Veterinarian                *

*     "Five tablets and a ten minute consultation. That's 50 please."    *
***************************************************************************

I've been informed that the reason the Intel site didn't mention the 120
is because it's not an Intel chip...
Sounds like a good reason to me. :)  Shows what happens when you assume,
huh?

=p=

Thanks Gord and/or Jane:
What detail do you run?  Generally I'll use car detail, off track objects
without detail, skid marks and smoke/dust, but leave everything else off.

And thanks for pointing out that it's not an Intel-produced chip.  I
_hate_ it when I jump to conclusions like that... :)

=p=

Gord Hunt

That is correct. The graphics engine in IndyCar Racing II was optimized
for the Pentium. This deoptimized it for the 486, so we actually detect at
runtime whether you are running on a Pentium or not and use the old scheme
if you are not.

Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II
Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

I have seen a demo of GP2. On a Pentium-90 in VGA (*not* SVGA), setting
the frame rate to 18.2 (the highest the demo allowed) resulted in a
processor occupancy of 140%-150%.

I'll bet it looks gorgeous on a Pentium Pro-200.

(The above is my personal observation and has nothing to do with my
position at Papyrus.)

Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II
Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

Mike

Rick:
So what does that mean in real world terms?  I can run NASCAR with the
UNIVBE at a reasonable frame rate, but ICR is much worse.  Is this the
result of the P5 optimization?
I'm close to being acceptable in ICR as long as I'm alone on the track.  I
would say that my ICR frame rate alone is about the same as my frame rate
in a crowd in NASCAR.
I'll still be using my same video card -- Stealth 64 w. 2megs of VRAM and
will be using a PCI motherboard with the UNIVBE.  If I have that setup
with the 120 chip, approximately what frame rate could I expect with car
detail on, outside objects on, but no detail and with skids and dust on.  
Any more detail than that is just distracting to me.
Thanks for your help.

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