rec.autos.simulators

by **p tenhe** » Tue, 07 Apr 1998 04:00:00

I've read all the post of people praising the GPL demo and I'm not so
sure that it isn't due to anticipation rather than reality. I agree
that this could become a clasic but the bottom line is that it falls
drastically short of other sims(GP2, ICR2 & NASCAR2) when it comes to a
sense of speed. Be honest, there is almost no, I say again "NO" sense
of speed and very little realistic closure rates. Of course this is
only MHO. I think it can be great and I realize this is a pre-beta but
"It Aint There Yet" and if they don't solve this it it will only appeal
to the diehards.

by **ymenar** » Tue, 07 Apr 1998 04:00:00

p tenhet wrote :

<snip>

Read the post I did to reply Marc. You probably are using the GP3 car,
who is a "learning" car !!!

Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Sponsored by http://www.awpss.com/
Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-)

Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking)

--"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

by **p tenhe** » Tue, 07 Apr 1998 04:00:00

> Sorry, but I just cannot agree with your observation here.
> I think that you have suffered a bad case of premature criticism. How
> on earth can you make a sweeping statement about closure rates when
> there are no other vehicles on the circuit?

Maybe I didn"t make myself clear. when I was talking about closure rate
I was referring to the lack of prepeceived closure rate to the turns not
to cars.
I think If you read my post I acknowledged that the Demo was a
pre-alpha. What's wrong with some constructive critizism? Are only
people with glowing reviews wright. Why don't we all say it is great
just as it is and encourage Sierra to release it next week.
Incredible physics don't sell PC games or sims. I love racing sims also,
I'm a diehard and I will buy itbut that will not make it a success if
the casual gamer won't buy it.

by **Rhawn Blac** » Tue, 07 Apr 1998 04:00:00

snip

>They warned us that this would be a beast to drive, and they were
>right. But I like that. They'll have the aids available for those who
>don't want to take the time to learn how to drive the car without
>them. And I believe this indicates a sharp learning curve for N3
>coming this fall, and that's a good thing in my book.

> *** Tim Wortman ***
> NASS '98 Series Director

> *** NASS '98 Homepage ***
> www.nasscar.com/n2.html

snip

Amen, the harder the better for N3

Rhawn Black

by **PHendrix** » Wed, 08 Apr 1998 04:00:00

Are you running G3 or GP?? This makes a BIG difference in your sense of speed,
since the G3 is no where near as fast as GP.

Just wondering

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Wed, 08 Apr 1998 04:00:00

Sorry, but I just cannot agree with your observation here.
I think that you have suffered a bad case of premature criticism. How
on earth can you make a sweeping statement about closure rates when
there are no other vehicles on the circuit?

It never ceases to amaze me when people dump on pre-release demos from a
great height!! Why do you do it? This is, after all, slated as a
"pre-alpha"! Even the engine sound is simply a filler (from N2).

If you cannot accept the demo for what it is and if you cannotenjoy the
incredible physics that are modelled then yes, I guess it will only
appeal to the "diehards".......about 99% of those who love racing sims,
huh?

--
Bruce
(Fyshwick)

"I hate music, especially when it's played."
(Jimmy Durante)

by **MLRESCH** » Wed, 08 Apr 1998 04:00:00

-Mark

by **T. Wortm** » Wed, 08 Apr 1998 04:00:00

I have to disagree. I find the sense of speed certainly no less than
N2. Take the stock car around WG by yourself and you get the same
sense of speed.

More than anything, I am very impressed with the physical engine of
the car. Totally awesome. They weren't lying when they said you could
actually see the weight shift from in the***pit.

They warned us that this would be a beast to drive, and they were
right. But I like that. They'll have the aids available for those who
don't want to take the time to learn how to drive the car without
them. And I believe this indicates a sharp learning curve for N3
coming this fall, and that's a good thing in my book.

*** Tim Wortman ***
NASS '98 Series Director

*** NASS '98 Homepage ***
www.nasscar.com/n2.html

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Wed, 08 Apr 1998 04:00:00

> I think If you read my post I acknowledged that the Demo was a
> pre-alpha. What's wrong with some constructive critizism?

How on earth do you qualify what you said as "constructive"?!
And why waste time by criticising a *pre-alpha*!!!!

But it *IS* great! The physics are incredible! If you cannot
appreciate that then you are missing the whole point of this product!

They certainly help to sell simulations, my friend.
And the casual gamer will buy it....believe you me.

--
Bruce
(Fyshwick)

"I hate music, especially when it's played."
(Jimmy Durante)

by **John Walla** » Wed, 08 Apr 1998 04:00:00

Can you just confirm for me - you _are_ driving the full "GP" car
aren't you? If you're driving the G2 or, heaven forfend, the G3 then
your speed will be, ah, "slightly reduced". :-)

If you are driving the GP car then that is surprising, as the
sensation of speed through, for example, the long left hander after
the backstraight is excellent IMO.

Cheers!
John

by **Doug Gordo** » Wed, 08 Apr 1998 04:00:00

They may also have to add some more "aids" to make things easier for the
casual gamer if this is to succeed. There can be such a thing as "too much
realism" in the physics, etc. when you consider that the driver "feedback"
is very far from being realistic. In a real racing situation, situational
clues come at you from many different sources -- vibrations, g-forces,
peripheral vision, etc. -- whereas in a computer sim you only have the very
small, limited viewport of the screen and some sound input. For example,
when road racing my motorcycle, I shift mainly by a combination of "ear" and
"feeling" the power curve drop off. This is difficult to sense in a computer
sim. In GPL I am having much more trouble feeling the car being on the verge
of a slide than if I were really sitting in the vehicle, yet sensing this is
very important in being able to catch the slide before it's too late!

--
Doug Gordon
(Remove "nospam." from e-mail address)

>I've read all the post of people praising the GPL demo and I'm not so
>sure that it isn't due to anticipation rather than reality. I agree
>that this could become a clasic but the bottom line is that it falls
>drastically short of other sims(GP2, ICR2 & NASCAR2) when it comes to a
>sense of speed. Be honest, there is almost no, I say again "NO" sense
>of speed and very little realistic closure rates. Of course this is
>only MHO. I think it can be great and I realize this is a pre-beta but
>"It Aint There Yet" and if they don't solve this it it will only appeal
>to the diehards.

by **William Dahm** » Wed, 08 Apr 1998 04:00:00

> I've read all the post of people praising the GPL demo and I'm not so
> sure that it isn't due to anticipation rather than reality. I agree
> that this could become a clasic but the bottom line is that it falls
> drastically short of other sims(GP2, ICR2 & NASCAR2) when it comes to
> a
> sense of speed. Be honest, there is almost no, I say again "NO"
> sense
> of speed and very little realistic closure rates. Of course this is
> only MHO. I think it can be great and I realize this is a pre-beta
> but
> "It Aint There Yet" and if they don't solve this it it will only
> appeal
> to the diehards.

I may be the only other person here to agree with you, but none the
less I do. I feel that these cars are way to slow to be fun to drive.
For some reason papy seems to want to make every sim BUT a return to
cart, the fastest cars in the world. They seem to pick slower and
slower cars to simulate each time. Whats next, Flinstones cars? I went
back to GP2 last night after playing GPL an Im like, "Woa! The car
actually turns and has good horse power and brakes!"
I am pretty sure they won't do this, but IMO it would be nice to see
the grip levels raised just slightly, enough to make the cars about 5 to
7 sec faster per lap would make it much more fun, if slightly
unrealistic. It should be noted that the fastest lap in the race that
year was about 1:05 and people with the demo are running about 1:10 at
best now. Assuming people get about five seconds faster, it would be
nice IMO to see the final laps just a hair better than one min.
Also I should say that the new physics (virtual***pit movement ect)
and grafx optimization are A+. I just wish they picked faster cars to
use it with.

p.s. the calib route was really nice also, I commend papy for doing what
Microshit should have long ago, i.e. fixing DirectInput

by **Pat Dotso** » Wed, 08 Apr 1998 04:00:00

> > I've read all the post of people praising the GPL demo and I'm not so
> > sure that it isn't due to anticipation rather than reality. I agree
> > that this could become a clasic but the bottom line is that it falls
> > drastically short of other sims(GP2, ICR2 & NASCAR2) when it comes to
> > a sense of speed. Be honest, there is almost no, I say again "NO"

> I may be the only other person here to agree with you, but none the
> less I do. I feel that these cars are way to slow to be fun to drive.
> For some reason papy seems to want to make every sim BUT a return to
> cart, the fastest cars in the world. They seem to pick slower and

Are both of you sure you are using the GP car and not the GP3? Also,
are you talking about sensation of speed in the turns or on the
straights? These cars are going a lot slower than modern F1 or
CART cars go through the turns.

How exactly can the sensation of speed be changed when the physics
engine is simulating reality?

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports

by **Michael Knephe** » Wed, 08 Apr 1998 04:00:00

> I may be the only other person here to agree with you, but none the
> less I do. I feel that these cars are way to slow to be fun to drive.
> For some reason papy seems to want to make every sim BUT a return to
> cart, the fastest cars in the world. They seem to pick slower and
> slower cars to simulate each time. Whats next, Flinstones cars? I went
> back to GP2 last night after playing GPL an Im like, "Woa! The car
> actually turns and has good horse power and brakes!"
> I am pretty sure they won't do this, but IMO it would be nice to see
> the grip levels raised just slightly, enough to make the cars about 5 to
> 7 sec faster per lap would make it much more fun, if slightly
> unrealistic.

Somehow, this strikes me as a bit like saying, "This is really good
wine, but it sucks because it's not beer."

--
Bringing up the rear in the 1998 F1RS Racing League ...
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/as/f1rl.htm
http://www.wenet.net/~josefk/f1rl/

by **q..** » Wed, 08 Apr 1998 04:00:00

> How exactly can the sensation of speed be changed when the physics
> engine is simulating reality?

> --
> Pat Dotson
> IMPACT Motorsports

R:

Skew the image by making it a wider angle will cause a greater sensation
of speed without tampering with any physics.

But a sticker needs to be added "objects are actually closer than they
appear".

Q.B.M.

rec.autos.simulators

GPL has potential BUT

GPL has potential BUT

GPL has potential BUT

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GPL has potential BUT

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GPL has potential BUT