rec.autos.simulators

GPL has potential BUT

William Dahm

GPL has potential BUT

by William Dahm » Wed, 08 Apr 1998 04:00:00


> Are both of you sure you are using the GP car and not the GP3?

yes very sure

they sure do.  actually I was talking about both, but the turns
espically

simulate faster carshears to hoping we will see a CART product with the
same engine in this lifetime
cheers!

William Dahm

GPL has potential BUT

by William Dahm » Wed, 08 Apr 1998 04:00:00



> >  I am pretty sure they won't do this, but IMO it would be nice to
> see
> > the grip levels raised just slightly, enough to make the cars about
> 5 to
> > 7 sec faster per lap would make it much more fun, if slightly
> > unrealistic.

> Oh....right.Then we could call it GP Legends Arcade?

Whoa there ace, you got me all wrong.  I don't play arcade games.  All I
meant was Id like to see the cars possibly a little closer to the cars
of today.  What would you figure a CART of F1 car would do around the 67
Glen config now, about 0:45 perhaps?  Compared to 1:05 - 1:15 in GLP
this is roughly a 25 sec diff.  Id like to see perhaps 1/4 of this gap
bridged, which would still leave plenty of challenge.
Bruce Kennewel

GPL has potential BUT

by Bruce Kennewel » Thu, 09 Apr 1998 04:00:00


>  I am pretty sure they won't do this, but IMO it would be nice to see
> the grip levels raised just slightly, enough to make the cars about 5 to
> 7 sec faster per lap would make it much more fun, if slightly
> unrealistic.

Oh....right.Then we could call it GP Legends Arcade?

--
Bruce.
(At home)

Bruce Kennewel

GPL has potential BUT

by Bruce Kennewel » Thu, 09 Apr 1998 04:00:00

But William.....but, but, but............it is *supposed* to represent
cars of *YESTERDAY*!!
I do not want a simulation that represents 1967 in all respects other
than car dymnamics/performance. I don't want the cars performing like
those of 1997....or 1987.....or 1977.

I just don't see the point, mate!  Why not rush out and buy F1RS....or
wait for Papy to do CART 2 or Nascar 3 or "GP Legends of the 1990s"?

What you are suggesting is akin to looking at a Battle of Britain
Spitfire and complaining that it doesn't perform like an F-16!!


> Whoa there ace, you got me all wrong.  I don't play arcade games.  All I
> meant was Id like to see the cars possibly a little closer to the cars
> of today.  What would you figure a CART of F1 car would do around the 67
> Glen config now, about 0:45 perhaps?  Compared to 1:05 - 1:15 in GLP
> this is roughly a 25 sec diff.  Id like to see perhaps 1/4 of this gap
> bridged, which would still leave plenty of challenge.

--
Bruce
(Fyshwick)

"I hate music, especially when it's played."
(Jimmy Durante)

T. Wortm

GPL has potential BUT

by T. Wortm » Thu, 09 Apr 1998 04:00:00



But then we wouldn't be talking about realism, would we? CART and F1
have both been done, and done again. I don't know about you, but I
want realism, even at the expense of slower laps. But you do have a
choice. If you don't like what you see, speak with your dollar$ and
don't buy it.

Maybe we'll get lucky, and CART will be on the Papyrus plate for '99.

         *** Tim Wortman ***
       NASS '98 Series Director

      *** NASS '98 Homepage ***
       www.nasscar.com/n2.html

Byron Forbe

GPL has potential BUT

by Byron Forbe » Thu, 09 Apr 1998 04:00:00


> They may also have to add some more "aids" to make things easier for the
> casual gamer if this is to succeed. There can be such a thing as "too much
> realism" in the physics, etc. when you consider that the driver "feedback"
> is very far from being realistic. In a real racing situation, situational
> clues come at you from many different sources -- vibrations, g-forces,
> peripheral vision, etc. -- whereas in a computer sim you only have the very
> small, limited viewport of the screen and some sound input. For example,
> when road racing my motorcycle, I shift mainly by a combination of "ear" and
> "feeling" the power curve drop off. This is difficult to sense in a computer
> sim. In GPL I am having much more trouble feeling the car being on the verge
> of a slide than if I were really sitting in the vehicle, yet sensing this is
> very important in being able to catch the slide before it's too late!

   Did I hear you right? ""There can be such a thing as "too much
realism" in the physics"". SIN! There are many things IN FAVOUR of us
simmers too. Millions of laps for next to no $$$$$, easy setup tweaking,
millions of laps, no fear and last but not least......... millions of
laps.
    Still, I think all sims need a way to ease people in that have
little or no sim racing experience. I have not tried it (and am
experienced enough to not be a good judge anyway I suppose), but I would
imagine that the G3 Brabham would be fairly easy with the aids on. It
seems Papy have chosen this more interesting way rather than heaps of
aids. Good idea too since it negates the possibility of people using
advantageous aids in comps. Something other clueless developers seem to
somehow overlook.
Byron Forbe

GPL has potential BUT

by Byron Forbe » Thu, 09 Apr 1998 04:00:00


>     I may be the only other person here to agree with you, but none the
> less I do.  I feel that these cars are way to slow to be fun to drive.
> For some reason papy seems to want to make every sim BUT a return to
> cart, the fastest cars in the world.  They seem to pick slower and
> slower cars to simulate each time.  Whats next, Flinstones cars?  I went
> back to GP2 last night after playing GPL an Im like, "Woa! The car
> actually turns and has good horse power and brakes!"
>  I am pretty sure they won't do this, but IMO it would be nice to see
> the grip levels raised just slightly, enough to make the cars about 5 to
> 7 sec faster per lap would make it much more fun, if slightly
> unrealistic.  It should be noted that the fastest lap in the race that
> year was about 1:05 and people with the demo are running about 1:10 at
> best now.  Assuming people get about five seconds faster, it would be
> nice IMO to see the final laps just a hair better than one min.
>  Also I should say that the new physics (virtual***pit movement ect)
> and grafx optimization are A+.  I just wish they picked faster cars to
> use it with.

  William, when I first heard that Papy was doing GPL I thought "big
deal". Don't forget MS had the CART license so how could Papy do ICR3
(which they are doing you know). Do yourself a big favour and stay out
on the track with GPL. It is brilliant and I can tell you that our lives
would have definantly been much less without it (and this is just the
demo). Also, last I heard, the 1.07 barrier was about to be broken and
when I hop over to the Apex I'll bet it has been. 1.08.11 last I heard.
I'm in the 1.10s at the moment and appreciate it immensly. When you get
the car performing at near it's peak you'll change your tune for sure.
Byron Forbe

GPL has potential BUT

by Byron Forbe » Thu, 09 Apr 1998 04:00:00



> > Are both of you sure you are using the GP car and not the GP3?

> yes very sure

  You realise that each time you re enter the track you need to reselect
G1?
Byron Forbe

GPL has potential BUT

by Byron Forbe » Thu, 09 Apr 1998 04:00:00




> > >  I am pretty sure they won't do this, but IMO it would be nice to
> > see
> > > the grip levels raised just slightly, enough to make the cars about
> > 5 to
> > > 7 sec faster per lap would make it much more fun, if slightly
> > > unrealistic.

> > Oh....right.Then we could call it GP Legends Arcade?

> Whoa there ace, you got me all wrong.  I don't play arcade games.  All I
> meant was Id like to see the cars possibly a little closer to the cars
> of today.  What would you figure a CART of F1 car would do around the 67
> Glen config now, about 0:45 perhaps?  Compared to 1:05 - 1:15 in GLP
> this is roughly a 25 sec diff.  Id like to see perhaps 1/4 of this gap
> bridged, which would still leave plenty of challenge.

   Sorry Will but I just gotta be a funny bastard here :) I want ICR3
with rocket propulsion and cars that run on monorails! Like that thingo
in Japan except much faster please. Just push 1 button and sit back and
enjoy the ride. Just have the scenery as a blur :)
Pat Dotso

GPL has potential BUT

by Pat Dotso » Thu, 09 Apr 1998 04:00:00



> > How exactly can the sensation of speed be changed when the physics
> > engine is simulating reality?
> > --
> > Pat Dotson
> > IMPACT Motorsports

> Skew the image by making it a wider angle will cause a greater sensation
> of speed without tampering with any physics.

> But a sticker needs to be added "objects are actually closer than they
> appear".

That's a good idea.  I think it would work best though if
the middle 3/4 of the screen were normal, and the outer 1/8
of the screen on each side was skewed to a wider angle.  Then
you could simulate peripheral vision while leaving the
majority of the driving view unchanged.  How much extra cpu
power would that require?

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports


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