Okay, now I'm getting your drift -- I am a non-Force Feedback person
myself (TSW2 wheel, and I have tried FF, but haven't like it as much
as my TSW2); putting things in these terms help me to see where you're
coming from.
I agree that you CAN and DO get a lot of this stuff from visual cues,
too -- a slight bit of "slew" in the graphics can go a long way
towards letting you know that the back end is starting to step out,
which is probably why I'm able to get around okay in GTR without
messing with the tyre sounds. In fact, I didn't really notice any
"missing" tyre sounds in GTR until this discussion popped up here.
The whole issue of "crutches" or "artificial aids" aside, though, I do
think that enhanced audio combined with spot-on visual cues CAN go a
long way towards making you feel like you KNOW exactly what happened
-- the key is that these "added" cues need to be transparent enough
that they aren't intrusive to the truly "sensitive" folks (like
yourself, for example), while still useful enough to provide intuitive
cues for the "average Joes" (like me or Achim, for example -- assuming
that Achim doesn't mind being lumped in with the "average Joes").
This is where SELECTIONS, OPTIONS, and CHOICES become valuable in the
marketplace: What is "intrusive" and "unrealistic" to some (customers
and developers alike) may be "necessary" and "realistic" to others
(and vice-versa). Codemasters made a similar blunder with RD2 when
they included decent enough dead zone and saturation adjustments in
their controller setup area, but failed to allow for an adjustable
linearity setting or variable steering ratios in their car setups.
They "assumed" that the more *** folks just always use
fully-linear steering inputs, but that's a misconception -- I, for
one, use a slightly non-linear steering setting in GPL, for example,
because that's what works best with my TSW2 wheel.
As for your point about trying do drive without artificially-enhanced
tyre sounds, you really CAN take it a step further and see just how
well you do without any sounds at all -- I use headphones when I
drive, and on several occasions I've had to take my headphones off to
take a phone call, but on a few occasions when I've just been
hotlapping, I've continued to run laps even without the sounds, and it
surprises me how well I'm able to run clean laps even without sound in
GPL at places like Monaco. I would even go so far as to say that in
some instances, things like tyre sounds and the sound of other cars
around me may even DETRACT from my performance -- these sort of things
seem to lead to an additional shot of adrenaline at times, which
really can have a negative impact on my performance.
That said, though, I'm actually in it for a bit of that adrenaline
surge, and for me the tyre sounds help me to feel like it's more of a
sim -- when you take out the tyre sounds, things start to feel much
more arcade-like. I realize that the exaggerated tyre sounds aren't
that realistic, but it's an additional feedback path that I like, and
I feel that it enhances the "realism" of the sim racing experience for
me.
So, as I said, SELECTIONS, OPTIONS, and CHOICES what it's all about,
and more developers need to offer more selections, options, and
choices to better serve the broad fan base. If a developer can
successfully address the issue of tyre sounds, for example, in a way
that will keep both folks like you and like me happy at opposite ends
of the spectrum, then we will BOTH be singing their praises, rather
than having one or the other of us damning their implementation
choices.
And, FWIW, I'd wager that you're probably skilled enough as a sim
racer to get by without those artificial Force Feedback cues . . .
;-)
- JB
> I respect your opinion but there is a reason I keep coming back to this
> point. You may have heard the argument about force-feedback versus the more
> expensive, non-FF wheels like the TSW line. There are some very fast people
> using non-FF wheels, and whenever the subject has come up the statement has
> been made that force feedback is too late to be useful, that your eyes will
> tell you what you need to know before the forces will. That argument still
> holds when it comes to audio, IMO. Your eyes will tell you what you need to
> know sooner and more reliably than the audio will. Trouble is, most people
> are used to having that audio cue from Papy games and so they don't *think*
> they can drive without it. But they most assuredly can. Anybody who can
> slide a car around a corner without losing it, or who is capable of rescuing
> a car from spin or a tankslapper, already has the intuitive feel necessary
> to drive by eye. Audio doesn't help you in those situations and frankly FF
> doesn't either. Seriously, there is no way audio or FF is of any help when
> you are trying to save a car from a spin, there is too much latency in both
> systems. What do you do? You look up the road in the direction you are
> trying to go, hold the throttle steady and steer out of it. You don't think
> about it, and you certainly don't listen for audio cues, you just do it,
> intuitively. If you can do that you already have the skill necessary to
> drive without the artificial tire sounds. And I believe most experienced
> sim racers are capable of doing that, therefore I believe most experienced
> sim racers do not *need* the artificial tire sounds. You will never know if
> you can walk without crutches until you throw them away and try it. And you
> can't quit if you fall down once either. Try it a few times, you might be
> amazed at how good you really are. ;o)
> > To make up for that lack
> > of realism we need a way to simulate what you feel/hear/see in real life.
> > Sound ques IMO fit the bill at the expense of a bit of reality.
