rec.autos.simulators

by **jbo..** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

rec.autos.SIMULATORS,

Put down the crayon, Rick, and try using a writing instrument with a
little finer point. <G> Yes, you're right -- GPL has no equal in the
genre of RACING simulators. In terms of AUTOMOTIVE simulators, though,
Viper Racing, DTR, and now NFS-PU all do equally-good jobs of
simulating the type of vehicles that they attempt to model.

GPL may be the best of the bunch when it comes to simulating what it
was designed to model, but as it is, when it comes to simulating modern
Porsches, Vipers, and Late Model dirt cars, GPL fars WAY short.

Yes, I'm sure the GPL physics engine could be adapted to model these
types of vehicles, and it would then be the best there is at modeling
those types of cars, I'm sure, but at the moment, all it models is open-
wheel 1967 GP racers, so there's plenty of room for OTHER types of
simulators.

Unless, of course, you happen to be so narrow-minded that your ears
touch . . . <G>

;-)

[NOTE SMILEY AND GRIN <G> ABOVE, INDICATING HUMOROUR INTENTIONS TO THE
FINAL REMARK OF MY MINI-DISSERTATION]

-- JB

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by **Ian** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Is that all you can say ??
Aren't you at least going to try and disagree with him ? No? didn't think
so.

--
Ian Parker

==

by **jbo..** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Deer Hunter is, unquestionably, the most realistic deer hunting
SIMULATION out there -- GPL pales in comparison. I doubt that a 1967
GP car could even withstand a collision with a deer, let alone kill
it. Stick Steffan Johannson in a 1970s-vintage F1 car, though, and you
might be onto something!

</HUMOR>

;-)

-- JB

> David, please do not bring sales figures into this.

> If that is the only thing that counted, then we would all be forced
to say
> that Deer Hunter is the best game out there

> > Yes, I'm so pissed off. I take "sim talk" that seriously.

> > If you'd like, I can show you another forum where RC has been
mentioned
> > 20,000 separate times in six months. You can check sales figures of
the
> two
> > sims and draw your own conclusions as to how many people in htis
world
> will
> > be discussing, and playing, those two sims tomorrow.

> > David G Fisher

> > > > Same people. Same old words.

> > > > David G Fisher

> > > LOL! Are you just pissed off that the "GPL Killer" that was
RC2000
> hardly
> > > gets a mention?
> > > I don't understand what you've got against folks who state their
> enjoyment
> > > of GPL. People only do it because it's a good sim. As soon as a
better
> > one
> > > appears the topics will shift. No one is blindly evangelising
GPL just
> > > because it's GPL.

> > > Mark

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by **jbo..** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

BRAVO, Paul -- well-said!

-- JB

> > Oh, nonsense - remember, the name of the newsgroup is

rec.autos.SIMULATORS,

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by **jbo..** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Does this bear any relationship to the "cult of personality"?

<G>

-- JB

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by **jbo..** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Again, I'm going to climb on Colin's bandwagon here so I can pat him on
the back.

Well-said!

-- JB

> > No, they are not excellent simulations. The relatively pathetic
physics
> > models are exactly why they are not excellent simulations. Add in
> pathetic
> > steering wheel controller support, pathetic FFB, ludicrously
unrealistic
> > damage modelling, etc. etc. etc., and you have more reasons to
support the
> > claim that they are NOT excellent simulations.

> MMmmm. I have to disagree with you Marc.
> I take it when you say "relatively pathetic" you mean in comparison
to GPL.
> That is the whole point of my post. It is this damaging attitude
that is
> all too prevalent in this NG.

> As for the physics being "relatively pathetic" I disagree again.
I've been
> lucky enough to go through a number of advanced driving courses. I
am a
> member of the IAM, I've had time on skid-pads etc. I've also been
taught
> how to 360 a car. Funnily enough, in NFS-PU you have to perform that
exact
> maneouvre. I executed it exactly as I would in my own car (MX-5,
rear-wheel
> drive) and it worked perfectly. This is just one indication that the
> physics model is pretty close. I can't comment on F1 2000's realism
since I
> haven't driven an F1 car but as close as I can get is a Formula Ford
car,
> and it's close enough to keep me interested =)

> I also do not agree with your comment about steering wheel support.
I have
> a TSW and a LWFF. Both work perfectly in the games I mentioned. F1
2000
> does indeed have "pathetic" FFB. However, I think the FF is NFS-PU is
> pretty good.

> The damage modelling is also far from "ludicriously unrealistic". F1
2000
> models suspension and body-work damage, as well as engine failures
etc.
> NFS-PU has excellent graphical damage modelling. The FF reflects the
wheel
> damage which is pretty cool. The one area where both these sims do
not
> model damage well is on full frontal collisions with a wall. Aside
from
> that, the damage modelling is acceptable.

> I have a question. If someone told you they were interested in sim-
racing,
> what would you recommend to them?? Just GPL??

> Just my two cents and again you get what you pay for,
> ...Colin

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by **jbo..** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

The Factory Driver mode in NFS-PU is pure genius, IMO. I've never
really longed to be a GP driver, but I've been a Car and Driver (and
Road & Track, and Auto Week, and . . .) for over 20 years now, and I've
ALWAYS longed to be a factory driver or an automotive tester, and now,
thanks to NFS-PU, I am able to live that experience through my PC.
Amazing!

And BTW, the trackside graphics in NFS-PU may be "pretty," but I seldom
notice because I'm usually too busy DRIVING.

GPL's physics model may be the most complete and complex, and GPL is
definitely the best driving/racing simulator IF you're interested in
racing lightweight, high-horsepower, high-performance, open-wheel race
cars. If you're interests lie elsewhere, though, there ARE many other
VERY decent sims out there to choose from.

Given that, I think it's something of a disservice to simply answer
"GPL" when someone asks "what is the best driving/racing simulator?"

-- JB

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by **Tracey Mille** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

"Cliff Roman" wrote

I think you might lose that bet, NASCAR Revolution was one of the biggest
flops of all time, even the casual gamers didn't like it.

Most people buy games based on word of mouth or positive reviews. By the
time a game is on the shelf the reviewers have already had their say and the
"warez kids" are spreading their opinion.

GPL didn't sell because it got bad reviews, in magazines, on websites, and
word of mouth. Terms like "hard", "difficult", and "steep learning curve"
scared too many people away - not to mention the late 60's era.

NASCAR Revolution didn't sell because terms like "bugs", "pauses", "choppy
frame rate" scared people away. The game was almost unplayable until the
2nd or 3rd patch, but by that time the damage had been done. Hard core "sim
freaks" were never going to buy it anyway, but it might have found a "gamer"
audience if it hadn't been so full of bugs.

by **Paul Kierstea** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

> Deer Hunter is, unquestionably, the most realistic deer hunting
> SIMULATION out there -- GPL pales in comparison. I doubt that a 1967
> GP car could even withstand a collision with a deer, let alone kill
> it. Stick Steffan Johannson in a 1970s-vintage F1 car, though, and you
> might be onto something!

> </HUMOR>

> ;-)

> -- JB

ROFL. Ohhh...that is good.

PMK

by **Eldre** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

>I pulled GPL out of mothballs (played it for a total of maybe 4
>hours in the past year) two weeks ago and did a 1:28 at Monza after a half
>hour of half hearted practice. Such an overwhelmingly realistic experience.
>I really felt at one with the physics of this "work of art". My 20 year old
>neighbor who never had tried GPL before did a 1:29 after an hour.

You ran a 1:28 after a total of 4 1/2 hours, and your neighbor did a 1:29 after
an HOUR?!?
That's just depressing...

Eldred - who *still* hasn't broken 1:30 in more than a YEAR...<Sigh>
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Cliff Roma** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

I wish there was a place that we could go to see actual sales figures that
were kept by a private seperate company.

We would all probably be surprised how little of these games are sold

by **Cliff Roma** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Haha

But have you tried riding a deer through Monza? It will take you a lot of
practice before you can get that 1:30 time :)

> Deer Hunter is, unquestionably, the most realistic deer hunting
> SIMULATION out there -- GPL pales in comparison. I doubt that a 1967
> GP car could even withstand a collision with a deer, let alone kill
> it. Stick Steffan Johannson in a 1970s-vintage F1 car, though, and you
> might be onto something!

> </HUMOR>

> ;-)

> -- JB

> > David, please do not bring sales figures into this.

> > If that is the only thing that counted, then we would all be forced
> to say
> > that Deer Hunter is the best game out there

> > > Yes, I'm so pissed off. I take "sim talk" that seriously.

> > > If you'd like, I can show you another forum where RC has been
> mentioned
> > > 20,000 separate times in six months. You can check sales figures of
> the
> > two
> > > sims and draw your own conclusions as to how many people in htis
> world
> > will
> > > be discussing, and playing, those two sims tomorrow.

> > > David G Fisher

> > > > > Same people. Same old words.

> > > > > David G Fisher

> > > > LOL! Are you just pissed off that the "GPL Killer" that was
> RC2000
> > hardly
> > > > gets a mention?
> > > > I don't understand what you've got against folks who state their
> > enjoyment
> > > > of GPL. People only do it because it's a good sim. As soon as a
> better
> > > one
> > > > appears the topics will shift. No one is blindly evangelising
> GPL just
> > > > because it's GPL.

> > > > Mark

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by **Andre Warring** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Nah, sometimes I even enjoy your continuing whining and complaining,
and reading your completely pointless posts actually can be funny
sometimes.
But lately you only repeat yourself, again and again, which is a
shame.

The only thing you can write about lately is complaining about the GPL
community. Start writing about car sims for a change. Tell us
everything about the real life physics of RC2000.

If you don't like it here, do yourself a favor and don't come here
anymore then.

Andre

>Do yourself a favor and put me on your kill-file then.

>David G Fisher

>> Indeed David, indeed. You are becoming really boring.

>> Andre

>> >Same people. Same old words.

>> >David G Fisher

by **David Kar** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Bruce, I fear you were too subtle there.

by **David Kar** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Yep; too subtle. But it was nice from here.

DK

rec.autos.simulators

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