rec.autos.simulators

<snip>

Agreed. My expectations run (optimistically) high that products should at
lease evolve, with the odd revolutionary product now & then to be a new
milestone.

Sure I love GPL - but I want more - more variety of car types, better
graphics, better sound, better AI - the wish list could go on & on.

In my (longish) exposure to sims there has been a steady progress:

1990 Indy 500
1992 F1GP
1993 Indycar
1994 Nascar
1995 Indycar2
1996 GP2
1996 Nascar2
1998 GPL

2000 has been good for rally sims with RC2000 & the forthcoming Rallymasters
proving to be a major step forward for this area. Bike sims - GP500 &
SBK2000 also seem to have taken a leap forward

Racing sims are due another milestone - hopes get raised and dashed.
Optimism takes over. Realistically I never expecetd EA Sports to produce a
cutting edge racing sim. However, I really hoped I would be surprised.
Expectations are raised and disappointment follows. Resulting in probably
harsh treatment by this group - yet this is a reflection of disappointment
more than an eager desire to slam anything that isn't GPL.

My best purchase has been the GPL track converter - well done Dave Noonan.
Yet still I feel disappointed that Papyrus haven't done anything with the
GPL engine. yes I know it all comes down to profits - but it doesn't stop us
wanting more from GPL.

Despite are apparent loyalty we as a group are as fickle as the general
public. We love Papyrus & GPL now. Yet if something truly better comes along
we will back that product.

We wait...

Tony

Good comeback.  Very insightful.

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports
http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

They are words, which contain thought and
opinion, with a few facts mixed in.  That's
a hell of a lot more than you've offered
today.

Rick

Oh, the irony!

--
Cheers!
Graeme Nash

As opposed to pushing buttons on a game controller (that's how it feels in
other sims)

        >All the while marveling at the
        > the boring, dated graphics
who has done it better ?
        > and the crappy frame rate
who has done it better ?
        > average sound
who has done it better ?
        > jump through hoops only to be disco'ed multi-player
who has done it better ?
         > feature. 1:28. Get the point yet?
You get the point ?

There are some good "efforts" of other developers, GPL, however, is not an
"effort", it's pure genious. It captures parts of the very essence that ,
for centuries, has made people risk their lives and become racing drivers
(don't try to tell me it's the pitstops). If you don't see that, fine with
me .. but because this is rec.autos.simulators and not
rec.prettytracksidegraphics.simulators i'm afraid you may have to live for
some time with the dominating position that GPL has in this group. And give
me one damn reason why I should recommend anything but GPL to some newbie
who posts the question "what is the best driving/racing simulator?"...

cheers,
Alex

Well done! Both you and your friend must be extremely talented at racing.
Sub 1.30 laps at Monza after just a couple of laps....

It's a shame, though, that you seem to be more interested in special graphic
effects than actually playing the game. What a waste of valuable talent.

Also, it is too bad that you do not have a proper modem or ISDN card. It
seems to me that there is something wrong with your hardware, or your ISP.
That is the only explanation for disconnects. Multiplayer implementation in
GPL is good, just as good as the rest of the game.

Jon

My .08(adjusted for inflation)

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends?  Goto  http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

NFS:HS has an awful physics model, but betting your car against another
is, in some way, a far better simulation of a poorly funded race team
(where too many wrecks will put you out of the season) then GPL will
ever simulate. NFS:PU is immersive and challenging. The cars may not be
totally real, but money mangement, etc. are very real, esp. past the
golden era (which is too easy, but gives you confidence at the start).

In short, GPL is -- without question -- the most accurate at set-up and
physics, but simulation can be about the entire experience, which is
where GPL fails in some respects. Obvious example: pit-strategy.

Oh, I'll nit-pick GPL physics too: Let us say we could model vehicle
physics perfectly. Would it make the best sim? Absolutely NOT. In the
real car, you can 'feel' the back end sliding out. You can 'measure' the
G's you are pulling. Visual cues (for braking, etc) are much better.
Your field of vision is much, much wider. To some extent, sims must
modify reality to make-up for the inadequacies of the medium: Small
screen, only limited visual and very limited steering wheel feedback
(with a small dash of sound).

So give the physics a rest and look at the entire sim experience.
Physics are important, but not the only factor.

PMK

LOL!  Are you just pissed off that the "GPL Killer" that was RC2000 hardly
gets a mention?
I don't understand what you've got against folks who state their enjoyment
of GPL.  People only do it because it's a good sim.  As soon as a better one
appears the topics will shift.  No one is blindly evangelising GPL just
because it's GPL.

Mark

Well maybe WSC and GP3 will be great sims but by far i do think N4 will be good
even though we dont have much info on it.

My view is that GPL has the best physics model around, but until we have
the physics engine in Indy sims, dirt track sims, SCCA Trans Am sims, F1
sims ... I need to buy F1-2000, SCGT, Dirt Track racing to get my racing
fix!   Watching a race (of any kind) on TV then racing the same track on
my computer is fun.   Driving any car with a realistic physics model is
fun - it doesn't have to be perfect just realistic to me.  R2K might not
have the perfect car-to-track feedback but its fun to race for 30minutes
not knowing the road by the back of your hand.  It sure is a blast when
friends come over anyway!

SCGT was the first sports car sim so I could drive cars that I'm used to
seeing.  It filled that gap.  Dirt track racing is really fun using
pro-stocks/stocks on the really short ovals :-D  F1-2000 seems to model F1
cars pretty good for me.  Sure the physics may not be as detailed as GPL,
but there is surely room for more than 1 sim on my 27 GB HD :-)   Even
SODA is still loaded up.

In conclusion, yes GPL has spoiled me by making me wish those physics were
in all my sims, but it's not going to stop me from playing other
games/sims.

Jason "I just want to race" Monds

"Inciteful" is a better word in this context.

The phrase "same old" makes me thing of
people like Remco, Marty U'ren, John
Wallace, and others.  They have evidently
permanently kill-filed you because they
never respond to you anymore.

Funny how you don't find yourself
"predictable"? hehe

In this news group, for the past year,
you have been Mr. RC2000.

That's a king-size straw man.  Who is this
fictitious person with a "ridiculous
allegiance to any one developer"?  I
haven't seen any here.  Everyone is
impatient for GP3 and WSC, whether they
like GPL or not.  Lots of GPL guys even
like RC2000 and F12K - imagine that.

We're all tired and bored, but not at
the same things apparently.

Commenting that a supposed sim does not
model physics to the extent that GPL does,
does not constitute "advise" (or advice, for
those watching at home).

You've taken leave from your senses again.  

I've seen a lot of guys on here who have said that
they've tried GPL again recently, after not
caring for it when released, who are hooked.
How did anyone have to sell 500,000 copies of
anything for that to happen?

How does doing a fast lap make GPL less
realistic?  1:28 is not that fast.

What sim are you playing?

I get the point.  Yes, the point is you are
hopelessly biased against GPL, and it is your
crusade to somehow prove that it's not worthy.

I don't know.  Same reason I beta test for
six different developers?  You are going
to have to try harder to impress us.

That's because you don't constantly and incessantly
rail against the users of "SCGT, MGPRS2, DTR,
RC2000, GP500, GP2, SBK2000, F12000", the
way you do at the slightest expression of
opinion that GPL might be the best sim
available.

Well, excuse me for not recognizing your
sainthood.  I won't let it happen again.

So now we are all cultists?  You are so
predictable.

I think I just saw Janet Reno out in the
yard.

Best wishes,

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports
http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

But--and having succumbed to this myself a *number* of times <g>, I can't
really throw stones--I feel the sort of fire Davey G. drew with his remarks
in this thread are *precisely* why he does it, over and over &c., &c.

He's got a lot of energy, the lil' tw*t.

--DK