rec.autos.simulators

by **Remco Moe** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

> I'll take RC2K as an example. There are aspects of the
>physics model which are maddening, but the _total_ simulation experience
>is great. You don't have to just put in good times; you have to be able
>to repair enough of your car to get to the next stage. You have to be
>strategic in repairs. You have to do tire & gear selection over more
>then one stage with varying conditions. A serious error can put you out
>of an entire rally (and ruin the entire season). The graphics are
>extremely important; they give a feel of realism. Once you have wrecked
>a few rallys by reckless driving, you start to slow down for that tree
>because you are white-knuckled for fear of hitting it; you just spent 40
>minutes running two stages and are terrified of ruining it all at the
>end.

It's only a pitty that the damage model of RC2000 is random...now,
take the mediocre physics, the random damagemodel, and the best
graphics in a racing game to date. What do you get? A mediocre sim
with pretty graphics....

The NFS series has many good points, but the racing part never could
impres me. For example, I never had to outbrake someone....
I just reached the Golden Era in NFS:PU, and so far it was a bit dull.
Good physics, nice graphics and sound, but no suspense...(dull tracks,
slow AI).

It's often discussed here, there was no pit-strategy in the 60ties.
They came in for repairs, and in GPL that option is missed with
full distance races.

Hmmm, isn't this the same for all racing-games? The fact that you call
this "nit-picking GPL physics" would suggest you're not open minded
about this...

With this I agree. And IMO it's the balance what makes GPL King of the
bunch, not the physics alone...but hey, I'm a GPL zealot, what opinion
did you expect? <g>

Remco, who is still waiting for a GPL beater...

by **Hena H?kk?ne** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

>but there is surely room for more than 1 sim on my 27 GB HD :-) Even
>SODA is still loaded up.

It better be! :) It's an excellent sim. IMO SODA comes right after GPL in
enjoyability.

Hena

by **Mark** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

I can tell.

The RC forum?

When did sales figures become the measure of quality of a product?
I'll be sure to check here at RAS - a newsgroup frequented by fans of
quality sims - to find out how many people are disussing RC2000 and GPL.

GPL is over 2 years old and people are -still- getting as much out of
it (if not more) than they were when it was released. Will RC be held
in such high regard on it's second birthday? Who knows?

I brought the RC issue up, Dave, not because I wanted to bad mouth it,
but to hightlight that you yourself have been known to evangelise a
product to a level that I (and others I'm sure) though was OTT. You
were RC2000's staunchest fan throughout it's pre release, stating that
the various demos were unrepresentative of the final product and
refusing to accept criticism levelled at it on those grounds.
To accuse the "same old people" of the "same old words" is rich from
one such as yourself.

Mark

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

by **Borut Srebotni** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

G. Huttu, W. Woeger, R. Ehnstroem, L. Grandis, K. Furlan and other fast guys
be a men enough and admit that this is very impressive. Even for you! Those
two guys would kick your butts if only GPL was good enough to put some of
their time in it. I blame Papy for making a lame arcade game that leaves all
that racing talent those two ( and there are probably more people like
them ) possess unused.

Borut

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Excuse I butting in, David, but didn't you say here....

.........that it's just a game?

Just curious that you'd shift positions so quickly on something like that.

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------

by **David Kar** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

I was just pointing out what I believe is the real motivation for your
crusade.

Ah, you poor thing.
You once were obnoxious.
Now you've become simply boring.
Goodbye.

[snipped same o l d stuff]

by **David Kar** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Not to mention that said RC2000 forum is dominated by people trading, er . .
."skins," and demands for new patches.

--DK

[snippee doo]
> > If you'd like, I can show you another forum where RC has been
> mentioned
> > 20,000 separate times in six months.

> The RC forum?

[snippee dooray]

by **Marc Collin** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Of course there will be lots of those, but in total volume and in proportion
of posts I will bet on a steady decline.

GPL is such a classic, some people will still be talking about it 10 years
from now, but overall, it will slip away (gracefully, I hope). Just my
opinion of the future!

Marc.

by **Cliff Roma** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

David, please do not bring sales figures into this.

If that is the only thing that counted, then we would all be forced to say
that Deer Hunter is the best game out there

> Yes, I'm so pissed off. I take "sim talk" that seriously.

> If you'd like, I can show you another forum where RC has been mentioned
> 20,000 separate times in six months. You can check sales figures of the
two
> sims and draw your own conclusions as to how many people in htis world
will
> be discussing, and playing, those two sims tomorrow.

> David G Fisher

> > > Same people. Same old words.

> > > David G Fisher

> > LOL! Are you just pissed off that the "GPL Killer" that was RC2000
hardly
> > gets a mention?
> > I don't understand what you've got against folks who state their
enjoyment
> > of GPL. People only do it because it's a good sim. As soon as a better
> one
> > appears the topics will shift. No one is blindly evangelising GPL just
> > because it's GPL.

> > Mark

by **Dan Belch** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

SODA is one hell of a good game to be however many years old it is! I played
it for about an hour yesterday as a matter of fact. I was perfecting my latest
track. It's a desert course where you jump over a canyon four times per lap.
It's scary going over some of those jumps from the***pit view!! ;)

Dan Belcher
Team Racing Unlimited
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Dan Belch** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Agreed. Sales figures are totally unrepresentative on how good a game is.
Most people know what rally racing is because they see it on TV all the time.
Therefore, when they go to the store, they see the box, they pick it up, read
the back, and buy it. But few people have any interest at all in 1960's Grand
Prix racing. If GPL was a modern day Formula One sim, I bet it could have
outsold RC2000. See the point we're going at, David?

Dan Belcher
Team Racing Unlimited
http://simcrashes.cjb.net

by **Alexander Mar** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

why should I recommend anything but GPL to some newbie
who posts the question "what is the best driving/racing simulator?"

by **Matthew B.Knutse** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

David,
Why am I not allowed to enjoy GPL?
Why can't I talk about it if I enjoy it? What IF I like it better than any
other sim?
It's like telling me "you idiot, can't you see that driving an souped-up old
Mini for fun is for morons?"

I like it, period. I buy most of the other sims, like them too. But for some
reason nothing has captured the limited time I can spend as a computer gamee
more than GPL. Sorry.
And at the way you are posting here, I'm beginning to feel guilty. I
actually feel like the ostracized person here....along with a few others,
I'm sure.
To me, it seems ras has been dominated by F1 2000 posts lately, so quite
frankly, I can't see why you are letting this get to you. Let people enjoy
it, let them talk about it. It's not your fault that they/I haven't gotten
hooked by RC2000 or whatever.

My comparison; No matter how much people would want me to drive a Mercedes,
I wouldn't. I simply don't like it. No thanks.
(expecting flames here)

Oh, and I'm really e***d about WSC. Looks and sounds like a dream come
true. Why? Because that is a form of racing I really enjoy.
(more flames expected)

Matt

> Yes, I'm so pissed off. I take "sim talk" that seriously.

> If you'd like, I can show you another forum where RC has been mentioned
> 20,000 separate times in six months. You can check sales figures of the
two
> sims and draw your own conclusions as to how many people in htis world
will
> be discussing, and playing, those two sims tomorrow.

> David G Fisher

> > > Same people. Same old words.

> > > David G Fisher

> > LOL! Are you just pissed off that the "GPL Killer" that was RC2000
hardly
> > gets a mention?
> > I don't understand what you've got against folks who state their
enjoyment
> > of GPL. People only do it because it's a good sim. As soon as a better
> one
> > appears the topics will shift. No one is blindly evangelising GPL just
> > because it's GPL.

> > Mark

by **David G Fishe** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

You made the comment that I'm "pissed off that the "GPL Killer" that was
RC2000 hardly
gets a mention? (at r.a.s.)"

What I tried to show you in my follow up post below is that at HG
http://forums.simracingnews.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi , a person can choose
to talk about almost any sim available today, just like they can at r.a.s.
Check the totals of RC and then compare it to the others. It isn't even
close. R.a.s. is where the small amount of GPL fans hang out and talk about
their sim. Do I get "pissed off" that it isn't talked about so much at this
forum? Why the hell would I? It's being talked about and run on computers
elsewhere in an amount that dwarfs GPL.

David G Fisher

> > Yes, I'm so pissed off. I take "sim talk" that seriously.

> I can tell.

> > If you'd like, I can show you another forum where RC has been
> mentioned
> > 20,000 separate times in six months.

> The RC forum?

> > You can check sales figures of the two
> > sims and draw your own conclusions as to how many people in htis
> world will
> > be discussing, and playing, those two sims tomorrow.

> When did sales figures become the measure of quality of a product?
> I'll be sure to check here at RAS - a newsgroup frequented by fans of
> quality sims - to find out how many people are disussing RC2000 and GPL.

> GPL is over 2 years old and people are -still- getting as much out of
> it (if not more) than they were when it was released. Will RC be held
> in such high regard on it's second birthday? Who knows?

> I brought the RC issue up, Dave, not because I wanted to bad mouth it,
> but to hightlight that you yourself have been known to evangelise a
> product to a level that I (and others I'm sure) though was OTT. You
> were RC2000's staunchest fan throughout it's pre release, stating that
> the various demos were unrepresentative of the final product and
> refusing to accept criticism levelled at it on those grounds.
> To accuse the "same old people" of the "same old words" is rich from
> one such as yourself.

> Mark

> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.

by **Richard Walke** » Thu, 06 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Any idiot can rail ride a lap that "fast"....

Cheers,
Richard

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