rec.autos.simulators

As I sit here reading posts about GP3, World Sports Cars and EA's F1 I
can't help but wonder where Papy is going. Should they be renamed
Nascar Development Group?  How long will that franchise last if EA
turns some good developers loose on their Nascar titles?

Like many, I have appreciated  the love and care put into GPL.
However, I can't see that engine being used for anything other than
more Nascar crap. (I buy the games to support them but they sit on the
shelf).  No modern F1 franchise, no U.S. open wheel franchise and the
other series will look even less palatable to their masters.They have
obviously tightened budgets by farming their artwork out to Russia. I
doubt that their move to new quarters was to a bigger and nicer place.
How long will they last with big guys like EA slowly racheting up the
quality?

Any thoughts? (as if I needed to ask that on RAS)

Jeff

Depends if they retire the aging Nascar2 physics/game engine or not.
In my opinion it's time for it to go. I won't buy any more games based
on it.

Joe McGinn
_____________________
Radical Entertainment

There are plenty of opinions here, but actual
thoughts are few and far between :)

Sure hope they can get something other than
another N1 revision out the door.  I haven't
even heard rumors of anything other than
NASCAR sims though :(

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports
http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

I hear what your saying but the problem is Nascar sells. I would love an F-1
game based on the late 70's before the turbo era. I would also love a 1960's
CanAm game. The big thing is that not too many people would buy these games
(on the grand scheme of things). You take a game like NFS, it sells. I
personally do not like it but People want arcade driving games. They want a
game that is pedal on the floor and steer! Not too many people like to set
up a car or wait 10 laps to make a move and then feel good about it. I know
people on this NG do love GPL and sim games but for most it is just too hard
and complicated. Remember we all have a problem! We're ***ed to sim
racing! Our needs dont match that of the general public. Lets keep our
fingers crossed.
Al Stiff

Hope for Papy? Let's not forget they're owned by Sierra.

The world sucks.

Marty

The problem (or benefit if you are a NASCAR fan like myself) is that
NASCAR sells.  Here in the United States, the market for such a sim is
MUCH larger than any other form of racing, particularly F1.  The CART/IRL
split didn't help matters much for the open wheel crowd here in the US.
As much as we are all sim lovers and fans, sometimes we all forget that
the companies distributing these titles are corporations in BUSINESS to
make money.  (Or if you want to get to the nitty...  Maximize Shareholders
wealth).   If I'm a shareholder... I want them to maximinize profits, not
satisfy the wants of a small niche that might be a break even proposition
or even if profitable, probably not so to the extent of NASCAR here in the
US.

Believe me, I would be waiting at the doors to get my hands on a solid
Historic CAN-AM title!

Don't quote me <VBG>, but NASCAR 4 is looking at a release by late summer.
(Of course,  that could mean Christmas 2001 too <VBG>)  Will it have the
GPL engine?  Sort of.  From my understanding, it will have a 6 degrees of
freedom physics engine based on the GPL engine but heavily re-worked to
accomodate NASCAR style racing.  What that exactly means I do not know,
but 6 degrees of freedom is definitely not the N1/N2  and N2 modified (N3)
physics engine.

Regardless... I would hardly be worried about what EA Sports is doing with
their NASCAR license.  They are basically producing prettier graphic
versions of old quarter arcade titles with more bugs <VBG>

Again, don't quote me ;)

Scott
PA-Scott
PowerSims.com

--
Scott B. Husted
ICQ# 4395450

It sure will be a shame if the new physics engine will not be used for
anything but NASCAR.
I'm a relative newcomer to sim racing, firstly with GP2 and ICR2 then F1RS
and onto GPL with a bit of SCGT thrown in for good measure.
I'm hoping for good things from WSC and GP3, but please lets have decent
online multiplayer, that one omission alone is simply unacceptable in this
day and age.
What we need is another Papy open wheel racing sim, after all that is what
they love, what they want to be doing and what they do really well, if only
they could persuade the suits at Sierra. Unfortunately I can't see that
happening, at least in the foreseeable future.

If a decent sim doesn't come out soon, I may have to start go-karting, ok
its not the fastest motorsport ever but the physics engine is nearly as good
as GPL <VBG> :)

Ian Parker

UKGPL League http://members.xoom.com/ukgpl
==

As they normally do each year, you will probably have something during the
Daytona Speedweeks, where Papyrus and Sierra Sports will give to the press
their 2000 lineup.  Which will include two Stock-car titles (the Truck
expansion pack for N3 and Nascar Racing 4 using the GPL game engine).
Unfortunately, there has been no clue at all if they will stop milking money
out of stockcar games, but let's hope, remember 7 out of the 8 last Papyrus
titles have been NASCAR ones.  Enough is enough.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:50:49 GMT, "Scott B. Husted"

Scott,

I agree with the last part of your comments, "maximize sharholder
wealth".  But, Havas (their parent) is an international company and
the world market for racing games  to me would point to F1 (albit
modern). GP1(world circuit) and GP2 were huge commercial successes.

I somehow feel that they have become the Betamax company in a VHS
world.  

Jeff

Ymenard, depends on your point of view.  Until they get EVERYTHING **I**
want in a NASCAR sim, I don't think they're done (I know that's very
self-centered).  I'm still waiting for pit stalls based on qualifying and
EVERY NASCAR track, and 6 degrees of movement.  I could probably forgo most
of the other omissions.
It's just lucky for ME that I don't care about open wheel racing - but I can
empathize with those of you THAT DO, 'cause I'd be pissed if the last 7 were
open wheel games instead of NASCAR.

Gunner

Nascar sells because NASCAR sells. In other words, there is some bleed over
between race fans and sim drivers. The same case can be made for Formula 1
races. They have a US stop this year. One would think the publicity -- soon
to come, one might hope -- should do wonders for F1 sims. There definitely
is a lack of awareness in the US. ESPN followed the F1 circuit pretty
closely in '96, but there was a very definite dearth of coverage since.
Lackluster audience shares tends to do this. Alas, it won't do Papy much
good to push the old model years. This truly is a crying shame.

Michael.

a

On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:50:49 GMT, "Scott B. Husted"

Scott,

In the early/mid 70's I raced motocross and to be competitive you had
to have a European bike, Husky, Maaco, Bultaco, KTM, etc. The big 4 of
Japan had bikes but they were junk. If you raced them you had to throw
most of the stuff away and buy aftermarket equipment.  Everyone
laughed at them but every year they went back to Japan and did a
little better. I don't need to tell you where they are now.  Somehow I
have the same feeling about EA Sports.

Jeff

Do you think Papyrus will ever port one of their sims to the Dreamcast?

The last article I remember with David Kaemmer had the interviewer asking
this question, and Im almost sure he replied something like.. with the new
consoles on the market (DC and PSX2), they will consider it more than in the
past.  Their only console title was pretty good actually, compared to all
the ***arcade games sold as a semi-serious sim (even if it's pretty old by
today's standard).  Of course, I could be wrong, but I do say that the
consoles of today have a potential for serious racing simulator with arcade
helps.  A title like N3 could be very well ported.  It may be difficult, but
as a title by itself N3 has a great depth of gameplay.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Jeffrey,

Papyrus though is a US company and has always focused on US motorsports (as
far as I know).  One other problem I have with F1 ( A HUGE one if you ask
me) is that F1 does not allow multiplayer over the internet in its licensing
deals AFAIK.  IF this is the case...  There is NO way I would purchase a sim
like this.   Im an online multiplayer racer.  GP3 could make GPL look like
Pole Position, but if it doesnt offer internet multiplayer capability, it
wont stay on my machine.  I never even purchased N99 because of this exact
reason.

--
Scott B. Husted
"PA-Scott"
COO
MMMGI
ICQ# 4395450

http://www.MMMGI.com
http://www.Acrotech.net
http://www.Powersims.com
http://www.InternetMotorsports.net