rec.autos.simulators

I just bought F1RS 2nd hand, and now need to buy a 3D video card, since
it is the only game  I have that needs a 3D card, I don't want to spend
heaps on it. I can get a Virge 3D DX 4mb PCI Card fairly cheap, am I
wasting my time or should I get something better, I don't normally play
many games, but I want  to be sure it will run OK.
I have a P200 with 32mg ram
thanks in advance
Haydn Martin

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#       Haydn Martin         #
#       Kadina                                #
# South Australia                       #
# http://www.racesimcentral.net/~hayd    #
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# D'oh D'oh D'oh, I mean WOOHOO !!      #
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Buy a VooDoo card, true VooDoo not VooDoo Rush.  You'll be glad you
did.  Check out  http://www.bushido-dojo.com/vdx/ if you like to buy
used stuff.

Do not try to use any 3D card other than 3dfx (Voodoo) with
F1RS. You will be very disappointed with anything that
is not 3dfx, for running F1RS.

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Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

be very disappointed with anything that is not 3dfx, for running F1RS.<<

Well, I may as well address this, now that I can :).

Since the 1.07 came out, I uninstalled and re-installed the game for D3D large
and then ran 1.07 patch.  I then ran the game to compare it to the Glide
version. Here are the real differences between the two:

1.  The D3D version used dithering more in the effects. The lens flare, the
ideal line and some other textures showed dithering was used rather than clean,
smooth colors.  This isn't a D3D or video board limitation, since I've seen
similar effects done in D3D that used pure colors rather than the grainier
dithering (Andretti Racing has a very 3DFX-quality lens flare even in D3D).
2.  The textures of the trees have improved and don't look as cartoony as in
previous revs.  I don't know whether its the latest drivers or the game, but
the big black lines around the trees are less noticeable so the appearance is
less cartoony.  The background skylines do look worse in D3D.
3.  The overall image appears darker than the bright Glide version.  I had to
turn up monitor brightness to compensate...not good.
4.  The frame rate was more uneven, with occassional hiccups (I still get them
from time to time in Glide, but only usually on the first lap or so until
everything is in memory).  But on the whole the frame rate was almost as
smooth.

The bottom line is that F1RS is about 20-30% nicer in Glide mode than with the
best D3D card.  That having been said, CART Precision Racing manages to run
more fluidly on my Riva D3D board and with less dithering than F1RS D3D, so
while some of the difference is D3D/Glide, it can't account for the total
difference.  Further, I'd go so far as to say that F1RS is a recommended
purchase regardless of what 3D board you get.  Its just that good of a game.
Forced to choose, I'd take F1RS D3D over any other sim, D3D or otherwise, but
within F1RS, Voodoo is preferred.

Final note: I un-installed the D3D version of F1RS and will now only run the
3DFX version.  I've done my comparison work for r.a.s. and I'm sticking with
the better version :)

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com/

Boy this just doen't seem like the good ole Randy that I know...
Anyway :-)

i.e. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it :-) I should point out that you
were less than thrilled about F1RS until you tried it with 3dfx. At least
that is what it seems. Maybe you just didn't spend time with it or
something? How did you overcome your acceleration problems?
I think that was your biggest gripe. Did the 3dfx somehow fix that?
I think I was stupid and said it might :-)

Just curious.

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:-)>>

You just didn't know me :).  I've said before I'm not religious about hardware
and I'll say it again.  I can evaluate any given piece of software or hardware
and just observe what I see.  Some of the slams directed at ANYTHING Direct3D
are still unwarranted, but it is also definitely true that when developers tune
a game for Glide and the 3DFX the results are generally better than a more
generic port of that game to D3D.  I also continue to hold that if someone
wants to build a game targeted at a feature set like that of the Riva, they'll
get just as good results.  But I don't think you're going to get great results
just porting a Glide version to D3D and expecting it to run as well.   You will
have architected your software towards the strengths -- and limitations -- of
the 3DFX chipset, so your game will naturally be at its best with that chipset.
 I'd similarly expect a Glide port from a D3D-Riva architected game to not work
as well.  Its really just a matter of how the developer deals with the expected
hardware configuration when they are building the game.  Several months ago,
3DFX would have won regardless.  Now there are a few D3D competitors that can
win out when the game was  designed for D3D rather than Glide.  F1RS was
clearly designed for Glide and is clearly better with the 3DFX.  And now the
Voodoo2 changes the balance yet again...so onward and upward we go :)

were less than thrilled about F1RS until you tried it with 3dfx. At least that
is what it seems. Maybe you just didn't spend time with it or something? How
did you overcome your acceleration problems?
I think that was your biggest gripe. Did the 3dfx somehow fix that? I think I
was stupid and said it might :-) >>

Okay, here's the rundown.  First of all, I think its fair to say that trying to
race a Formula One simulation without any mirrors is going to be dicey at best.
 Given that the game froze up within 2 laps if I had the mirrors on in D3D
mode, it follows I was not going to have as much fun dicing with AI cars in D3D
mode until that got fixed (which it now seems to be).  But by the time that got
fixed, I had a 3DFX card.  Second, the acceleration problems are no different
before and after 3DFX.  I more or less simply resigned myself to the situation
being the way it is and I just have learned to cope with it.  Sometimes I can
lessen the peakiness with gear ratios and a softer rear suspension, and
sometimes I just shortshift into 2nd and 3rd gear to 'beat the peaks' if you
know what I mean.  This minimizes the chance that I'll cross the "oh hell it
peaked and I got wheelspin" effect off of slow corners.  Just as I adapted to
CPR's low grip and short brake pedal travel, I adapted to the digital-acting
"rev-peaking-threshhold".  Now that I'm used to it, I can work with it and its
no longer a serious barrier.  Once I got past dealing-with/ compensating-for
the powerband issues, I was able to start enjoying the sim more.  And the more
time I spent with it, the more stuff I found to like.  For instance, being able
to watch qualifying TV-style in real-time while I sat in the pits and bit my
nails :).  The mirrors and smooth frame rate allowed me to dice more closely
with the AI and evaluate an aspect of the sim I couldn't before.  

So the following factors have resulted in my very cheery outlook towards F1RS:

1.  The patches which fix the mirror problems and other glitches
2.  The 3DFX board making the graphics look even nicer and smoother
3.  My working through the problems with the 'peak threshhold' on the throttle.
4.  1,2 and 3 resulted in more practice, faster lap times, and more fun.

And of course, the more time spent, the more the of the game I'm able to see
and appreciate.  But even had I NOT gotten a 3DFX, the 1.07 patch would STILL
have addressed my problems with the D3D version and I'd undoubtedly be playing
a lot and enjoying it more regardless.  Again, remember I have a P300 and a
Riva board, so I have a pretty darned fast D3D system as well.

Randy

Just curious.

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Header intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com/

I think the mirror problem was only in the D3D version. So you would have
never seen that issue with the 3dfx card. I never have.

As for the TV-style stuff, yes that is very cool and certainly look close to
ESPN2 to me. I would watch that and remember how people in the NG
said F1RS looked cartoonish, and thought "ya right". Then I found those
people were doing D3D not Glide. I guess the D3D is better now though
so as you say allot is fixed.

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never seen that issue with the 3dfx card. I never have. >>

Exactly.  But this was a bug in the D3D version of F1RS, not some kind of
inherent D3D flaw.

ESPN2 to me. I would watch that and remember how people in the NG said F1RS
looked cartoonish, and thought "ya right".>>

It's still a little on the "Bright 'n Cheery" side even with Glide, and it
doesn't help that the clouds slide across the sky like they were painted on an
overhead transparency, but cartoonish is an exaggeration (just like a lot of
descriptions of sims people love/hate on r.a.s).  But today was the first time
I ever got my pole position, and then parked it in the pits and just sat there
and watched qualifying in realtime.  Show me another sim where it is enjoyable
to do that.

better now though so as you say allot is fixed. >>

Ubi Soft knows that there's still a significant # of 3D boards out there that
are NOT 3DFX. Its only smart to try to cater to as broad a user base as
possible.  Even if F1RS is always going to be somewhat nicer in 3DFX-land, its
certainly fine now in D3D.  I'm glad I have a 3DFX for it, but it would still
be great in D3D now that some of the glitches are fixed.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com/

On Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:54:30 -0400, Rob Edsall

said:

I'm using a Mystique 220 and I'm not disappointed at all with F1RS.
It can be slow at the start, the Monaco tunnel is a bit too dark, but
the game is very playable.  Of course, I know a 3Dfx would be better,
but it's also expensive...

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Have you tried setting the accelerator sensitivity to 100%.  I found that I
get linear response from the accelerator when set to 100%.  In contrast,
when I set this to 0%, nothing happens when I press the accelerator until
the very end, and then it's almost like a digital off/on effect.  Also, when
you're in neutral and you press the accelerator down, do the RPMs go up
linearly.  They should if everything is set up correctly.

My question is whether the steering is handled the same way.  Is 100%
sensitivity mean linear steering?
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Kevin
(Remove the "x-" prefix from my address in order to reply via email)

Yeah the other guys are right.  Any card with  "3dfx" (ie. utilizes the
voodoo chipset) is an excellent choice.

Canopus Pure is a 3dfx card with 6megs but is expensive.  I have a
Guillemont Maxi Gamer 4megs 3dfx card -- a little cheaper but only because
it has 2megs less.  The Canopus Pure is top-rated.  Mine came with two
excellent 3dfx games -- POD and Subculture -- both by UBISOFT -- the makers
of F1RS.

If you can wait and can afford it the new 3dfx cards are coming out very
soon -- within the week -- with the new voodoo2 chipset.  Some will have
8megs, some 12megs.    But read the reviews first to see which one will be
the top-rated card in terms of performance versus value.

So you'll have to decide -- Voodoo or Voodoo2?  Whatever your decision, you
will sleep well knowing full well that 3dfx is the defacto standard right
now for 3d games.

I'll try fiddling with the accelerator sensitivity some more and we'll
see.  Thanks.

Randy

Thanks for the input people, it sounds like I'm just gonna have to
shell out some serious clams ...
Haydn Martin
On Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:43:02 -0500, "Charles Mak"