rec.autos.simulators

At least the DC version.  Don't know if he was as enthused about
the PS2 version.  Which is essentially a rehash and apparently
doesn't take advantage of the PS2's extra power.  (I have the DC
version, but never bothered getting the PS2 version due to the
above).

BTW, The upgraded PS2.... is going to play DVD-R's and DvD-RW's as well
as support progressive video.  That's it for the upgrades.  No increased
horsepower, no better sound, nada.

Exactly.  Seems like the GT series brings out the greatest hyperbole on
earth. :)  Most popular has never equaled BEST.

This makes sense since there's no point in producing a marginally more
powerful console when everything must be optimized for the original PS2.
How will older games benefit when most PS2 titles already run at 30-60 fps?
I doubt there's a special texture pack in these old games that will be
unlocked.

--
Joe M.

Here's an article on the redesign of the PS2.

http://news.com.com/2100-1043-996748.html

Here we go again....

Hehe ;-)

Although I am a huge PC/Papy sim fan, they haven't ever made anything
that felt as close to actually driving a car as GT3 feels. The physics
in GT3, while not accurately simulating the wind resistance of the guy
waving the chequered flag, do feel, er, *right*. The cars feel (and
look) like they are actually driving on tarmac. It's something I
really can't describe very well, but nothing else really comes close
to that sensation. I'd say that LFS is progressing very nicely in that
department, though.

I'm not saying that GT3 is more realistic than Papy stuff, just that
the cars feel connected to the road in exactly the same way as real
cars do, and exactly the same way that GPL/NR2003 cars don't. Oh yeah,
and nobody really gives a **** about Nascar. <pulls on concrete
overcoat, hehe>

By the way, you can't connect to the PS2 online thing over here with a
56k connection, it's broadband only.

Of course, this was in the days before graphics became more important
than substance and gameplay and game developers actually had to come up
with good ideas and couldn't hide rehashed games behind flashy graphics

Now if anyone needs to get in touch with me I'll be over here playing
Rail Road Tycoon, not RRT 2 or RRT deluxe, the original one, and I'll be
doing it on a 486 running DOS, none of this fancy Windows ***

I'm with Dave Henrie, no to progress, who needs it !!

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

I share your opinion of the driving model - it's great.  It feels "right"
and that's all that matters to me (although being able to lock the brakes
would make it excellent).   Unfortunately, that's ALL it has - a DRIVING
model.  It fails as a racing game which is what I crave.  I want 20 cars and
decent AI - GT3 offers neither.  Frankly, I like the driving model of GT3
more than GTR 2002 which I find too twitchy for my ability.  I'd be much
happier with GT3 handling/physics and GTR2002 AI (although not great either)
and a full field of cars.  We agree on physics/feel (A-) and disagree on
overall value of the game (C+) since I put much more weight on racing
experience and give GT3 an "F" as a racing game.

BTW, PS2 is 56k or BB in the US which puts it at a distinct disadvantage to
the very well executed BB only Xbox.

--
Joe M.

I don't see how someone that has played both GT3 and GPL/NR2003 can actually
believe that.

Kyle

GPL is skidpan racing. Yes, techniques that you use in real life are
useful in the game, but you have to 'learn' what the car is going to
do in the sim. There has never been a person who grabbed hold of GPL
and managed to complete their first lap, however slowly. Just look at
the intro video, you see the cars in real life sliding around, but its
a nice, progressive slide. In the game, it doesn't replicate it at all
well.

I have never raced on an oval so I can't tell you what a car feels
like on that rather unique type of racetrack, but I am judging NR2003
on the road courses. It's a huge amount better than GPL in the tyre
model department - it feels a lot more clued in to the road, a lot
more controllable at about 95% of the limit, but still a bit wrong.

LFS is better than both of them *in this department*. So is GT3. In
both of these, you can head into a corner a bit too quick, and you can
feel it, control it, without thinking about what you are doing (unless
you never raced in real life). You run wide, you lose time, but that's
what happens in real life too. Get on the power a bit too quick, the
wheels start to spin, but you can feel it and control it.

Okay, let me put it another way. The pavement-tyre interface in NR2003
is undoubtedly more realistic than LFS/GT3, but LFS and GT3 give a lot
more information about what is happening at the contact patch to the
driver. Thus, they *feel* better to drive.

I'm not saying GT3 is better overall - the AI sucks, the collisions
are awful (but we're proper sim racers, we don't crash, right?), just
if you go out in your little 1.1 Fiesta and push into a corner a
little quick, you'd realise that LFS and GT3 are better than Papy.

I get no feel from any of the GT games to that level.  Granted I've
not played for a long time but used to put in some all-night split
screen multiplayer sessions in and IIRC it was a drifty game.  You
could drift away all night and had to in order to be competitive.  I
don't think I could do that in a real TVR, for example.

The GTis in LFS, though, is a different matter.  Going in hot and
running wide, power on understeer, all that felt just as I remember it
in my Ibiza GTi...

As I've not driven a '67 era F1 car or Cup car I've got no experience
to judge, but on watching TV, in car footage, car attidute on track,
etc, I'd say they *look* to handle similarly.  WRT feel, Papy titles
have always worked for me in that respect.  I always feel like the
virtual car is doing what I want it to do given the inputs I provide.

Regards,

Mark

Mabster

I bought the PS2 version of F355.  There are some improvements, such
as the longer replays, but in analog steering the wheel most
definitely has a bad dead spot in the middle.  Since 'feel' is
everything in a game like this, this was disappointing.  However, it's
largely like its Dreamcast cousin.

Still a great sim, but they could have done better with the control :(

Randy

Where are you writing these days?

As to GT4, there are plenty of previews after E3.  See
gamerankings.com and follow the links.  Supposedly 500+ cars,
including classics, *real* tracks (please!!), "improved AI" (but
some mention of more "catchup" AI which I do *not* consider an
improvement), improved physics, graphics, more realistic lap
times.  No indication that they'll let you disable the ABS.  Heck,
just the same with real tracks and lots more interesting cars and
they had me hooked.