rec.autos.simulators

by **ymenar** » Mon, 05 May 2003 02:00:42

> GT4 will also have near-perfect online play.

So, it will have a 43 human multiplayer experience that's almost warp-free?
A server/client system like Papy?

Track accuracy?
Ranking?
Organised output file system for leagues?
User-painted cars?
Anti-cheat systems?

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Alex 'pez' Porazinsk** » Mon, 05 May 2003 02:40:23

RAM cheats? driving aids that allow for completely unrealistic sets that get
great tyre wear and can allow quicker speeds than is possible without?
wreckers?

as its being designed for online play id hazzard a guess that there will be
a league system, rankings etc.

warp free? the PS2s online capability is pretty much DSL or CABLE only, so
you wont get the 56k warpers like you do with n2003 (heck, im one of em!)

pez

> > GT4 will also have near-perfect online play.

> So, it will have a 43 human multiplayer experience that's almost
warp-free?
> A server/client system like Papy?

> Track accuracy?
> Ranking?
> Organised output file system for leagues?
> User-painted cars?
> Anti-cheat systems?

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Todd Walke** » Mon, 05 May 2003 10:58:46

I haven't been able to put my finger on it either but you are right --
the graphics in GT3 are amazing. The main reason I play the game is to
watch the replays. The car models are dead on accurate, the camera views
are realistic (for the most part,) the lighting and textures are first
rate, and the frame rate is excellent.

--
__________________________
Todd Walker
http://twalker.d2g.com
__________________________

by **Stefan Larsso** » Mon, 05 May 2003 17:05:35

>>Wow.. the consoles have won

> Graphics smalphiscs, WHO CARES!!

> The Gran Turismo series doesn't even equal the quality in physics and game
> engine complexities of NASCAR RACING 3.

Well, in GT3 I get the opportunity to turn right once in a while for a
change... ;)

--
/S

by **Stefan Larsso** » Mon, 05 May 2003 17:06:27

The intro of GT3 doesn't differ much from the real in-game quality...

--
/S

by **Stefan Larsso** » Mon, 05 May 2003 17:15:12

>>Who wants to buy an X-box when GT3 exists???

> Well, without ANY AI whatsoever (hot lapping bots that run you off the
> road), only 6 cars on the track, and unrealistic anti-lock brakes on all the
> cars I was bored and done with GT3 in less than a month and ended up selling
> my PS2 and buying an Xbox (mainly for this and the superior graphics and
> sound of the Xbox). Based on what I've read, Pro Race Driver looks to be a
> better RACING experience with far more tracks and a nice size field of cars.
> GT3 is simply a hot lapping game until they deliver at least 12 other cars
> and some intelligent RACING AI.

I can live with that since the production of the Gran Turismo series is
so magnificent. There are lots and lots of cars and competitions. It
lasts for over a year. The AI is not the best I've seen, and I look
forward to be able to race in GT4 against my friends since no AI can
beat real human competition. I'd rather have a well designed game with
decent physics than a game with very accurate physics and fantastic AI
but that looks like shit and has no framerate whatsoever... If a racing
game is going to have good physics the designers must not forget the
design of the game -- that little extra that makes you stick with that
very game in favour of any others, even if they are technically more
superior.

Yeah, what's the point in having the most powerful console when there's
nothing but ***to run? If the PC wouldn't have any good games I'd
rather play games that are entertaining on my old Amiga or C64.

--
/S

by **Steve Smit** » Mon, 05 May 2003 20:20:48

No, it's a console (duh!). Worse, Sony has hitched their wagon to a 56K
dial-up horse. It will work swell with you and a couple of drinkin'
buddies. But it won't be as good as N2003...just as N2003 isn't as driving
a real race car. Life is scaleable - ain't it grand?

> > GT4 will also have near-perfect online play.

> So, it will have a 43 human multiplayer experience that's almost
warp-free?
> A server/client system like Papy?

> Track accuracy?
> Ranking?
> Organised output file system for leagues?
> User-painted cars?
> Anti-cheat systems?

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Steve Smit** » Mon, 05 May 2003 20:28:31

Sony is well aware of the cheating prob with consoles...particularly THEIR
console. It's not in the Japanese culture to cheat (much), so they were
completely blindsided by the amt. of cheating that swamped their first
online forays. MS has just abt. pulled even in the multiplayer wars
(despite being buried in the hardware & shrinkwrap wars), primarily because
they did a better job of anticipating cheating. But Sony is learning fast,
and is feverishly writing anti-cheating Netcode that will be implemented in
GT4. How do I know all this stuff? 'Cuz I spent a lotta time with Sony's
game wonks a coupla months ago when I was writing "Car Games for Car Guys"
for Motor Trend (when I was bowled over by their first GT4 screenies).
Maybe Sony lied to me...but I don't think so.

> RAM cheats? driving aids that allow for completely unrealistic sets that
get
> great tyre wear and can allow quicker speeds than is possible without?
> wreckers?

> as its being designed for online play id hazzard a guess that there will
be
> a league system, rankings etc.

> warp free? the PS2s online capability is pretty much DSL or CABLE only, so
> you wont get the 56k warpers like you do with n2003 (heck, im one of em!)

> pez

> > > GT4 will also have near-perfect online play.

> > So, it will have a 43 human multiplayer experience that's almost
> warp-free?
> > A server/client system like Papy?

> > Track accuracy?
> > Ranking?
> > Organised output file system for leagues?
> > User-painted cars?
> > Anti-cheat systems?

> > --
> > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/
> > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Jay** » Mon, 05 May 2003 23:02:15

Steve,

Anywhere on the 'net' that I can read your "Car Games for Car Guys" article?

> Sony is well aware of the cheating prob with consoles...particularly THEIR
> console. It's not in the Japanese culture to cheat (much), so they were
> completely blindsided by the amt. of cheating that swamped their first
> online forays. MS has just abt. pulled even in the multiplayer wars
> (despite being buried in the hardware & shrinkwrap wars), primarily
because
> they did a better job of anticipating cheating. But Sony is learning
fast,
> and is feverishly writing anti-cheating Netcode that will be implemented
in
> GT4. How do I know all this stuff? 'Cuz I spent a lotta time with Sony's
> game wonks a coupla months ago when I was writing "Car Games for Car Guys"
> for Motor Trend (when I was bowled over by their first GT4 screenies).
> Maybe Sony lied to me...but I don't think so.

> > RAM cheats? driving aids that allow for completely unrealistic sets that
> get
> > great tyre wear and can allow quicker speeds than is possible without?
> > wreckers?

> > as its being designed for online play id hazzard a guess that there will
> be
> > a league system, rankings etc.

> > warp free? the PS2s online capability is pretty much DSL or CABLE only,
so
> > you wont get the 56k warpers like you do with n2003 (heck, im one of
em!)

> > pez

> > > > GT4 will also have near-perfect online play.

> > > So, it will have a 43 human multiplayer experience that's almost
> > warp-free?
> > > A server/client system like Papy?

> > > Track accuracy?
> > > Ranking?
> > > Organised output file system for leagues?
> > > User-painted cars?
> > > Anti-cheat systems?

> > > --
> > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > > -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/
> > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> > > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **ymenar** » Tue, 06 May 2003 01:45:22

> It will work swell with you and a couple of drinkin' buddies.

Well, that makes more sense then the people screaming "PC *** IS
DEAD!!!!!!!!1111111111111111"

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Joe M** » Tue, 06 May 2003 02:01:42

> >>Who wants to buy an X-box when GT3 exists???

> > Well, without ANY AI whatsoever (hot lapping bots that run you off the
> > road), only 6 cars on the track, and unrealistic anti-lock brakes on all
the
> > cars I was bored and done with GT3 in less than a month and ended up
selling
> > my PS2 and buying an Xbox (mainly for this and the superior graphics and
> > sound of the Xbox). Based on what I've read, Pro Race Driver looks to
be a
> > better RACING experience with far more tracks and a nice size field of
cars.
> > GT3 is simply a hot lapping game until they deliver at least 12 other
cars
> > and some intelligent RACING AI.

> I can live with that since the production of the Gran Turismo series is
> so magnificent. There are lots and lots of cars and competitions. It
> lasts for over a year. The AI is not the best I've seen, and I look
> forward to be able to race in GT4 against my friends since no AI can
> beat real human competition. I'd rather have a well designed game with
> decent physics than a game with very accurate physics and fantastic AI
> but that looks like shit and has no framerate whatsoever... If a racing
> game is going to have good physics the designers must not forget the
> design of the game -- that little extra that makes you stick with that
> very game in favour of any others, even if they are technically more
> superior.

Good AI and good graphics are not mutually exclusive and until a console
does superior online racing than good AI is critical to a RACING game. GTR
2002 is a fine example of the best of both worlds. No reason to ever dabble
with the MISSING AI in GT3 and only 6 cars of competition when I can run
against 30+ cars in GTR2002 and enjoy the finest sports car RACING
available. The issue is driving vs. racing; GT3 is not racing.

BTW, GT3 only keeps you busy for a year if you find the AI competent and fun
which I did not. The goal in GT3 is to race past the AI quickly before they
drive you off the road. That's not racing, that's jousting. :)

This is a fanboy argument or just completely ignorant. If you enjoy sports
then the Xbox is supreme (best graphics and sound of all consoles and best
selection of sports games). If you enjoy fighting games the Xbox is
excellent (again, no less selection than the PS2 and better graphics and
sound). It also has a fine selection of shooters with Ghost Recon as the
finest example on any console (with Socom an inferior imitation). While the
Xbox lacks GT3 it still has a strong stable of racing with Pro Race driver,
PGR, Rallisport Challenge, MotoGP, CMR3, Nascar Thunder, and SegaGT. Let's
not regress to "my console is bigger than your console", they're all good
and some are simply better for your particular tastes.

There's no killer app on the PS2 for someone like me (I'm 35 years old and
not interested in the mindless nonsense in GTA games) so it was an easy
choice to swap it for an Xbox since I appreciate the progress scan on most
games and Dolby Digital sound and most great games are available on all 3
consoles. Quite frankly, the Game Cube leads in quality over quantity with
AAA titles like Zelda, Metroid and Super Mario Sunshine. Of course I bought
the GC for my son *cough* because it's a kiddie console. :)

--
Joe M.

by **Steve Smit** » Tue, 06 May 2003 02:58:07

Consoles can now be played on HDTVs (there's a better PS2 in the works--call
it the PS2-1/2--which will support 1080p), which is the equivalent of abt.
1020x768...on a 30-inch (or larger) screen.

by **Steve Smit** » Tue, 06 May 2003 02:59:05

I'll query MT and ask if they mind if I post it.

> Steve,

> Anywhere on the 'net' that I can read your "Car Games for Car Guys"
article?

> > Sony is well aware of the cheating prob with consoles...particularly
THEIR
> > console. It's not in the Japanese culture to cheat (much), so they were
> > completely blindsided by the amt. of cheating that swamped their first
> > online forays. MS has just abt. pulled even in the multiplayer wars
> > (despite being buried in the hardware & shrinkwrap wars), primarily
> because
> > they did a better job of anticipating cheating. But Sony is learning
> fast,
> > and is feverishly writing anti-cheating Netcode that will be implemented
> in
> > GT4. How do I know all this stuff? 'Cuz I spent a lotta time with
Sony's
> > game wonks a coupla months ago when I was writing "Car Games for Car
Guys"
> > for Motor Trend (when I was bowled over by their first GT4 screenies).
> > Maybe Sony lied to me...but I don't think so.

> > > RAM cheats? driving aids that allow for completely unrealistic sets
that
> > get
> > > great tyre wear and can allow quicker speeds than is possible without?
> > > wreckers?

> > > as its being designed for online play id hazzard a guess that there
will
> > be
> > > a league system, rankings etc.

> > > warp free? the PS2s online capability is pretty much DSL or CABLE
only,
> so
> > > you wont get the 56k warpers like you do with n2003 (heck, im one of
> em!)

> > > pez

> > > > > GT4 will also have near-perfect online play.

> > > > So, it will have a 43 human multiplayer experience that's almost
> > > warp-free?
> > > > A server/client system like Papy?

> > > > Track accuracy?
> > > > Ranking?
> > > > Organised output file system for leagues?
> > > > User-painted cars?
> > > > Anti-cheat systems?

> > > > --
> > > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > > > -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/
> > > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> > > > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Joe M** » Tue, 06 May 2003 05:02:07

Steve, do you mean 1080i (which is 1920x1080 interlaced - more detailed than
1024x768)? That will look amazing. My cable co. just hooked me up with
HDTV for free (HBO, ABC, NBC and PBS) and it actually looks better than some
DVD's (my set is 4:3 but is 1080i capable). I'm pretty sure the Xbox can
currently do 1080i (a handful of games are 720p) but I don't think any game
would run at 60 fps at such a high resolution. Here's to the PS3 and Xbox2!
:)

--
Joe M.

> Consoles can now be played on HDTVs (there's a better PS2 in the
works--call
> it the PS2-1/2--which will support 1080p), which is the equivalent of abt.
> 1020x768...on a 30-inch (or larger) screen.

> > people still play games at tv resolution? Gah. :)

by **Todd Walke** » Tue, 06 May 2003 11:26:53

HDTV blows DVD quality away (if you are watching it on an HD capable set
of course.)

--
__________________________
Todd Walker
http://twalker.d2g.com
__________________________

rec.autos.simulators

Holy crap! Check out these new screens of Gran Turismo 4!

Holy crap! Check out these new screens of Gran Turismo 4!

Holy crap! Check out these new screens of Gran Turismo 4!

Holy crap! Check out these new screens of Gran Turismo 4!

Holy crap! Check out these new screens of Gran Turismo 4!

Holy crap! Check out these new screens of Gran Turismo 4!

Holy crap! Check out these new screens of Gran Turismo 4!

Holy crap! Check out these new screens of Gran Turismo 4!

Holy crap! Check out these new screens of Gran Turismo 4!

Holy crap! Check out these new screens of Gran Turismo 4!

Holy crap! Check out these new screens of Gran Turismo 4!

Holy crap! Check out these new screens of Gran Turismo 4!

Holy crap! Check out these new screens of Gran Turismo 4!

Holy crap! Check out these new screens of Gran Turismo 4!

Holy crap! Check out these new screens of Gran Turismo 4!

Holy crap! Check out these new screens of Gran Turismo 4!