rec.autos.simulators

by Jo » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

>The disadvantage: CPU cycles going to the routines handling FF
>The advantage: Knowing through the wheel what those front wheels are doing
>w/o having to look at them.

I read quite an interesting post about this on the 3Dfx server
yesterday, supposedly quoting a GPL developer:

As for CPU usage, I have seen a post by Randy Cassidy, one of the
designer of Grand Prix Legends who tested some FF wheel and here's his
quote:

"Of the wheels I've tried, the Force GT (USB) causes by far the
greatest CPU hit. On a PII-400, it takes about 3.5 million CPU cycles
(about 8.75 milliseconds) to issue a simple force command. This is
unconscionable!

By contrast, the Logitech Wingman Formula Force (serial) takes about
50,000 cycles (about 0.12 milliseconds), and the Microsoft Sidewinder
Force Feedback wheel (game port/MIDI) takes about 1.5 million cycles
(about 3.75 milliseconds - still very, very high, but servicable;
drops
to about 1/3rd this amount if the wheel and pedals are stationary, but
what good does that do you?)"

Joe

by **john moor** » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

I wonder how much of that is coming from the port and how much is the wheel
itself?
JM

> >The disadvantage: CPU cycles going to the routines handling FF
> >The advantage: Knowing through the wheel what those front wheels are doing
> >w/o having to look at them.

> I read quite an interesting post about this on the 3Dfx server
> yesterday, supposedly quoting a GPL developer:

> As for CPU usage, I have seen a post by Randy Cassidy, one of the
> designer of Grand Prix Legends who tested some FF wheel and here's his
> quote:

> "Of the wheels I've tried, the Force GT (USB) causes by far the
> greatest CPU hit. On a PII-400, it takes about 3.5 million CPU cycles
> (about 8.75 milliseconds) to issue a simple force command. This is
> unconscionable!

> By contrast, the Logitech Wingman Formula Force (serial) takes about
> 50,000 cycles (about 0.12 milliseconds), and the Microsoft Sidewinder
> Force Feedback wheel (game port/MIDI) takes about 1.5 million cycles
> (about 3.75 milliseconds - still very, very high, but servicable;
> drops
> to about 1/3rd this amount if the wheel and pedals are stationary, but
> what good does that do you?)"

> Joe

by **Griff** » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

On Tue, 18 May 1999 16:48:59 GMT, "Scott B. Husted"

>Im curious about individuals who love FF. Now, Im not slamming FF <G>
>Ive only used it a few times on various games. "not simulations".

>My question is this. If drivers choose to use FF online, wont they be
>at a disadvantage? I would think that having to deal with more
>feedback would give the individuals using non-FF wheels an advantage
>because they could be smoother, etc.

>Although I would imagine that FF would be pretty cool to just run around
>with offline.

>Thanks,
>Scott
>PA-Scott

>--
>Scott B. Husted
>ICQ# 4395450

One would imagine that there would be a way to switch _off_ the force
feedback, if required.

The perfect solution to anybody having problems playing with FF
online. ;)

Griffin, the Slayer

by **Jack Ramb** » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

Griffin...

To supplement the ability to turn off force feedback at the controller
level, GPaL will also allow you to turn off force feedback through an
appropriate selection from the Control Set dropdown box in GPaL's Race
Central screen. Take a peek at www.RaceLive.com/GPaL.

Jack Rambo

www.RaceLive.com/GPaL

by **Chris Schlette** » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

Yeah, that thread is on this list too. :) So yes, he did say that.

> >The disadvantage: CPU cycles going to the routines handling FF
> >The advantage: Knowing through the wheel what those front wheels are
doing
> >w/o having to look at them.

> I read quite an interesting post about this on the 3Dfx server
> yesterday, supposedly quoting a GPL developer:

> As for CPU usage, I have seen a post by Randy Cassidy, one of the
> designer of Grand Prix Legends who tested some FF wheel and here's his
> quote:

> "Of the wheels I've tried, the Force GT (USB) causes by far the
> greatest CPU hit. On a PII-400, it takes about 3.5 million CPU cycles
> (about 8.75 milliseconds) to issue a simple force command. This is
> unconscionable!

> By contrast, the Logitech Wingman Formula Force (serial) takes about
> 50,000 cycles (about 0.12 milliseconds), and the Microsoft Sidewinder
> Force Feedback wheel (game port/MIDI) takes about 1.5 million cycles
> (about 3.75 milliseconds - still very, very high, but servicable;
> drops
> to about 1/3rd this amount if the wheel and pedals are stationary, but
> what good does that do you?)"

> Joe

by Jo » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

>I wonder how much of that is coming from the port and how much is the wheel
>itself?

I think the uSB is pretty fast, so in the Force Gt case it must be the
wheel or the drivers. Not sure about the MS wheel.

Joe

by **Bill Pritcha** » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

On Tue, 18 May 1999 12:12:32 -0500, "Chris Schletter"

>The disadvantage: CPU cycles going to the routines handling FF
>The advantage: Knowing through the wheel what those front wheels are doing
>w/o having to look at them.

>I've tried Viper Racing both with and without FF and I must say I am faster
>WITH FF simply because I know what those wheels are doing BEFORE I see the
>results of my course corrections.

>Best advice I can give is to try Viper Racing...its a great platform for
>showing a good decent start at FF in racing games.

I second that.

I find it much easier to corner in Viper racing now that I can feel my
car get loose. Before, I would often find myself starting to push out
into a guard-rail or be spun around ass-backwards and not know what
happened. The FF lets me progressively feel the over or understeer
start to happen and allows me to take corrective action. There's a
great feeling in Viper Racing of sliding around the switchbacks of
sunset mesa with the wheel letting you know when you have regained
traction...

-Bill

>> Im curious about individuals who love FF. Now, Im not slamming FF <G>
>> Ive only used it a few times on various games. "not simulations".

>> My question is this. If drivers choose to use FF online, wont they be
>> at a disadvantage? I would think that having to deal with more
>> feedback would give the individuals using non-FF wheels an advantage
>> because they could be smoother, etc.

>> Although I would imagine that FF would be pretty cool to just run around
>> with offline.

by **Greg Cisk** » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

>Im curious about individuals who love FF. Now, Im not slamming FF <G>
>Ive only used it a few times on various games. "not simulations".

>My question is this. If drivers choose to use FF online, wont they be
>at a disadvantage? I would think that having to deal with more

If someone is scrapping the wall and constantly hitting things,
maybe. However FF will force you to drive smoother. I worked
for me in F1RS. It really does add quite a bit to the experience.

Perhaps there should be a FF only online league for real men (and
ladies).

--

Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

by **Scott B. Huste** » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

Im curious about individuals who love FF. Now, Im not slamming FF <G>
Ive only used it a few times on various games. "not simulations".

My question is this. If drivers choose to use FF online, wont they be
at a disadvantage? I would think that having to deal with more
feedback would give the individuals using non-FF wheels an advantage
because they could be smoother, etc.

Although I would imagine that FF would be pretty cool to just run around
with offline.

Thanks,
Scott
PA-Scott

--
Scott B. Husted
ICQ# 4395450

by **Chris Schlette** » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

The disadvantage: CPU cycles going to the routines handling FF
The advantage: Knowing through the wheel what those front wheels are doing
w/o having to look at them.

I've tried Viper Racing both with and without FF and I must say I am faster
WITH FF simply because I know what those wheels are doing BEFORE I see the
results of my course corrections.

Best advice I can give is to try Viper Racing...its a great platform for
showing a good decent start at FF in racing games.

by **Hena Hakkane** » Fri, 21 May 1999 04:00:00

>Perhaps there should be a FF only online league for real men (and
>ladies).

So you're saying that people who haven't invested in FF wheels for lack of
money for example, are sissies? If not, perhaps you should rephrase that ...

Hena

by **Pat Dotso** » Fri, 21 May 1999 04:00:00

> So you're saying that people who haven't invested in FF wheels for lack of
> money for example, are sissies?

Yes, you big wuss :)

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports
http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

by **Greg Cisk** » Fri, 21 May 1999 04:00:00

>>Perhaps there should be a FF only online league for real men (and
>>ladies).

>So you're saying that people who haven't invested in FF wheels for lack of
>money for example, are sissies? If not, perhaps you should rephrase that

....

Hey you said it not me, I think I'll go with it :-)

--

Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

by **Marko Viitane** » Sun, 23 May 1999 04:00:00

>>>Perhaps there should be a FF only online league for real men (and
>>>ladies).

>>So you're saying that people who haven't invested in FF wheels for lack of
>>money for example, are sissies? If not, perhaps you should rephrase that
>....

>Hey you said it not me, I think I'll go with it :-)

DEJAVU!

by **Marko Viitane** » Sun, 23 May 1999 04:00:00

>> So you're saying that people who haven't invested in FF wheels for lack
of
>> money for example, are sissies?

>Yes, you big wuss :)

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