rec.autos.simulators

Eldred

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Robert

   Hi Robert,
From what I've seen of BTCC cars on TV, they dont have any tendency to
oversteer (understatement). And from your GPL experience, you are soo
steeped in oversteer that its understandable TOCA2 seems the way it
does to you. To each his own, but if you are curious as to how your
understanding of driving TOCA2 compares to other people (who *do* like
the game) you should check out our Fast Laps Page. Setups are available
there as well (along with Fast Laps to download). Check out the times
there, and then ask yourself how much you really understand about
driving TOCA2..  it may be that you are several seconds off the pace,
and that your impressions of TOCA2 are similarly limited. I guess for
me, opinions would ideally be backed up by results. Saying the cars
'are on rails' for example, is true enough  ..if you are driving off
the pace. Hell, who knows, maybe you just need oversteer to be happy! :)

http://blitzsports.com/racing/TOCA2/

MR

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You're saying you DON'T spin out normally?  Wow, I'm impressed!  I can't make a
lap WITHOUT spinning.  That doesn't improve my opinion of the demo, and does
NOTHING for my confidence in the real game(which I've never actually SEEN in
the stores...)

What kind of steering device are you using?  Maybe the game just doesn't read
my T2 correctly.  All my OTHER games do...

Eldred

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I bow to your experience of TOCA. After joystick frustrations, it's now
going better but I'm just not happy with it as a sim. There's something
..... sorry... so tacky about it.....it just feels so arcadish - perhaps
it's meant to. Some tracks are a lot more convincing than others. Brands
Hatch (which I know very well from actually driving round it) is not laid
out correctly and I see tons of spare polygons and ripped seams everywhere.
For me this sim just doesn't have the polish of the competition. I think
you're right though, after GPL it feels very strange not oversteering. As
you say though, each to his own!

Robert

Correction - now I've got my joystick set up properly, I'm getting speeds
which do indeed tend to spin the cars if not checked. There's not much
notice of a slide coming though - maybe real TOCA cars grip like glue and
then suddenly "let go". I'm used to getting a lot of advanced warning of a
slide from GPL, but even Monaco gives you a "feel" for what's about to
happen.

Regards,

Robert

You have - it's in the advanced options. Set it to "Non-linear".

Z.

Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

Robert,

  If you look at the performance characteristics of modern low profile racing
tires, you'll find that they do trade the characteristic of a progressive grip
roll-off with increasing slip-angle (once maximum grip is achieved) for a
higher absolute grip level. So, TOCA cars quite possibly do grip 'like glue'
until a threshold is achieved and then lose it as tire grip rolls off. As far
as 'feeling' an impending slide, I find with my MS FF wheel, I can drift the
car pretty well and correcting oversteer with a bit of opposite lock is both
predictable and repeatable. The first corner at Oulton Park is a prime example
since if you don't hit the corner just right, you'll end up spinning if taking
it flat out. Here, you can feel the rear try to step out but some opposite lock
can correct it. If you miss it real bad, you might be forced to drift it out
halfway onto the grass, but its' controllable. Try a FF wheel and see if you
don't agree. I'm thoroughly enjoying TOCA2 and find it to be a much more
realistic successor to TOCA. Now all I need is that patch to make the AI
faster. I'm getting tired of winning all the time.

Regards,
Brian

-David Thomas Jr.
Thomas Enterprises

It does?  I had no problems at all being able to gauge the quality of either
ICR2 or N2 when I used to race with a joystick (ugh, even with the 1st and
2nd button as throttle/brake) a long time ago.   Not to mention some of the
fastest GPL drivers use a joystick/pedal combo and I would hazard that they
can accurately gauge the quality of the GPL sim.  Granted, I feel that a
wheel/pedal combo helps me get more immersed in the sim and my joystick gets
left to Falcon4.0 and MW3.

     You can gauge the graphics with a joystick! :)  But its not a
black-and-white situation. Bless those GPL guys who are fast with a
joystick, GP2 drivers who use a keyboard, and Grand Turismo gamepad
players..  the fact is, using a wheel+pedals is part of 'buying into'
the experience (like you mentioned yourself).  Dave used the word
'hamper' refering to using a joystick, and thats a fair description.

 Its not impossible for keyboard GP2 drivers to get a feel for the game
(?!) but the best simulation in a controller is a wheel+pedals. Thats
all it boils down to: the best simulation in a controller is a wheel,
and a joystick IS a far cry from *that* simulation! :)

MR

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Also, wouldn't setting it to 'non-linear' make it MORE twitchy?  I'm already
using a wheel(T2).

Eldred

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As I recall sometimes the advanced option only becomes visible
immediately after you've selected the controller type.....

Nope - it primarily allows you to make those fine course corrections
you *expect* to be able to make while racing at speed!

Dave

That makes even LESS sense...  You wouldn't realize you NEEDED to adjust it
until AFTER you race.  By then it's grayed out...
  I assume I'll have to re-select, huh?  <sigh>  Ok, I'll try that - thanks.

Eldred

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