rec.autos.simulators

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Sat, 09 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Just a couple of points, Thomas......

(snip)
I suppose thats why so many use 2.5, it "just feels right" as I was once
told by someone.
(unsnip)

Only if one has never seen the real thing racing. If so, then four inches
RH "just feels right".

(unsnip)
Still I've not seen anyone run anything in the neighborhood of 4 to 5 inches
(which
would be about right for the ring) with a 45/85 (which is about standard for
a real
racing car).
(unsnip)

I do.....and so do many others who use this sim as a representation of a
period in motor-racing history. Hard? ***y oath it is! Satisfying?
You'd better believe it. Every lap completed of the Nurburgring (for
example) in a Ferrari running 45/85 ramps, 4 clutches and a ride height of
4/4.25 is HUGELY satisfying.

Bruce.

-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.racesimcentral.net/ The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

by **Tim (fusio** » Sat, 09 Oct 1999 04:00:00

> We keep on bringing up the idea of a Legends of the Brickyard. But in
>reality,how can you build a entire racing sim around one race. I really
>don't think that the average arcade racer would buy the concept or the sim.
>And for that matter,how many of us dedicated sim racers would buy it as
>well?

It'd be neat as hell if it covered the enormous span of time cars have
been running there. Can you imagine a simulation covering the first
races where a mechanic rode in the car and worked on it On The Fly?
The cars and track changed so fast, it'd be an enormous undertaking to
even model a 20 year period.

I don't think anyone could do the idea justice, so I agree with you.
It's better to stick to a few car models on lots of tracks.

Tim

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Sat, 09 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Thomas, I've only just started to use this "realistic" setup, having
completed a full season (off-line) doing one race per month with easier
settings (correct ride height but more gentle ramps). It's hard to believe
just how fast the past year has gone!

What I am now doing is, in effect, experiencing a whole new simulation! GPL
has taken on a completely different guise with these settings and so I now
look forward to _another_ year of strong interest. This is an amazing
product!!

-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.racesimcentral.net/ The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Sat, 09 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Joel...this is exactly how Papyrus started.....with "Indianapolis 500".
Customers tastes may have changed over time but I believe that, done
correctly, a "one-race" sim is perfectly viable.
Some examples:
Indy 500 (as it was in the roadster era)......including the qualifying
peculiarities.
Le Mans 24 Hours....1960s.
Spa 1000 Kilometres for Sports/Prototypes of the 1960s.
Ditto Nurburgring 1000K.
Targa Florio of the 1960s.

Just a bit of food for thought.

BK

> > Bruce Kennewell wrote
> > > Dan Gurney?
> > > Richie Ginther? (deceased)
> > > > Never heard of Phil Hill then?

> > Guys, it doesn't matter whether or not Tracey Miller ever heard of
> > these guys. What matters is if the majority of the buying public has
> > not only heard of them, but has a deep down desire to race against
> > them. I can't speak for Europe, but here in the U.S. it's "what have
> > you done for me lately", or "out of sight out of mind".

> > A Legends of the Brickyard sim could work because most of the
> > legendary CART drivers (A.J. Foyt, Rick Mears, Mario Andretti, Tom
> > Sneva, the Unsers, etc.) are still public figures either as car
> > owners, race commentators, or spokesmen. Not to mention that Papy
> > apparently has a working relationship with I.M.S. since they got to
> > include it in N3, and Indy needs all the publicity it can get right
> > now.

> > Maybe if the Gran Prix of the U.S. is a huge success then they can
> > start looking at doing another F1 sim, but for right now it's a dead
> > issue.

> We keep on bringing up the idea of a Legends of the Brickyard. But in
> reality,how can you build a entire racing sim around one race. I really
> don't think that the average arcade racer would buy the concept or the
sim.
> And for that matter,how many of us dedicated sim racers would buy it as
> well?

> Joel Willstein

-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Sat, 09 Oct 1999 04:00:00

no dowt yu did, david...as did i.

> yawn--I knew what Tracey was referring to--I bet the-world-minus-Bruce did
> too.

> > GranD Prix. GranD.

-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Sat, 09 Oct 1999 04:00:00

opshunal

> man's. Man's.

> [snip]

> mans love of that period which resulted in GPL.

> 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

by **Jan Hoviu** » Sat, 09 Oct 1999 04:00:00

> In every arcade racer I've bought I have always enjoyed learning the
> tracks on EASY mode and building up my skills from there. I just didn't
> have the patience to learn the tracks of GPL at 5mph until I could
> handle the car better. I would have much rather learned the tracks in
> an Arcade mode and then slowly added realism feature-by-feature or
> level-by-level...

I do not fully agree here: I think you would still be frustrated after
increasing reality: You would have learned the wrong techniques (as is pointed
out in "Four Wheel Drift" in case off using driving aids) to ever get
competitive at realistic level leaving you even more frustrated.
The end-result would be the same: putting GPL aside as being too difficult.

Let's simply accept the fact that:
- The public aimed at with GPL is above average gamers-age which isn't a very
big group: You need to be patient and mature in order to become a skilled
sim-racer which most youngsters aren't (They want action and they want it
NOW!!).
- The era targeted (60's) isn't that popular and appealling, even I myself
almost missed it (imagine: I would still be drooling around using MGPRS2)
- Even SIERRA probably underestimated the quality of the sim itself and
therefore didn't do much advertising (in Holland: Zero!)

Jan.

by **Mats Lofkvis** » Sat, 09 Oct 1999 04:00:00

[snip]
> - The public aimed at with GPL is above average gamers-age which isn't a very
> big group: You need to be patient and mature in order to become a skilled
> sim-racer which most youngsters aren't (They want action and they want it
> NOW!!).

But on the other hand few older gamers beats the youngsters when it
comes to the number of hours played when they are hooked.

Hence I strongly believe that the fact that GPL is hard to master is
not a problem at all when it comes to younger players, only the steep
beginners learning curve. Give them easy action to start with and they
will soon beat us more mature with full realism settings :-)

_
Mats Lofkvist

by **Wolfgang Preis** » Sat, 09 Oct 1999 04:00:00

And it would have to be more than one track - at least two: the
original brick brickyard and the new, re-surfaced track. Imagine
different eras of Indianapolis, with fitting cars, background music,
trackside objects (including the parked cars in the infield etc.) The
user interface could be a time machine where you choose the period you
want to go to and - bang - you're there.

Being a European, I still know little about US racing, but even before
the advent of "Indianapolis, the simulation", Indy was a household
name in racing for me. Since I'm more average than I'd like to admit,
I believe that this is the case with many more Europeans. Such a sim,
if done right, would sell in the US as well as Europe (and probably
the rest of the world.)

I'm sure Papy could handle the simulation part of the thing allright.
I'm more wary regarding the general gameplay. Papyrus sims, and
especially GPL, in the past had excellent physics, ["Hear, hear!"] but
the atmospheric aspect was often lacking a bit. ["Um, - I smell
heresy!"] As was the fun factor, especially regarding more arcadish
features, such as top ten lists of fastest laps, fastest races,
highest top speeds etc. ["Bring on the flame throwers!"] or different
animations celebrating a win in a single race, a full-lenght race or a
championship. Such stuff, while not essential, would do a lot to
create an atmosphere which could do a lot for the popularity of a
game. ["BURN THE HERETIC! HE SAID THE G- WORD!"]

--
Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

by **Graeme Nas** » Sun, 10 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Bruce, just out if interest, what race lengths did you run? I'm about to
start a full offline season but I'm stuck between GP Length races for
the satisfaction, or 50% GP Length distance for my health :-)

--
Cheers!
Graeme Nash

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Sun, 10 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Two lengths, actually Graeme.
One we did at Pro Long level and the other was for full Grand Prix length,
so that's two races per month.

The Pro-Long distance is an ideal compromise between a shortish race yet
offering something that requires a bit of stamina insofar as concentration
is concerned....except for the 'Ring, which really needs to be run at
full-length (15 laps) in order to get into the rhythm.

For complete ***, try a full-length GP at 1:00 AM after a rather busy
day........!!! :o)

-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.racesimcentral.net/ The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

by **Mark** » Sun, 10 Oct 1999 04:00:00

You talk about easier settings, is there anywhere i can get these setups ?

>Two lengths, actually Graeme.
>One we did at Pro Long level and the other was for full Grand Prix length,
>so that's two races per month.

>The Pro-Long distance is an ideal compromise between a shortish race yet
>offering something that requires a bit of stamina insofar as concentration
>is concerned....except for the 'Ring, which really needs to be run at
>full-length (15 laps) in order to get into the rhythm.

>For complete ***, try a full-length GP at 1:00 AM after a rather busy
>day........!!! :o)

>> >Thomas, I've only just started to use this "realistic" setup, having
>> >completed a full season (off-line) doing one race per month with easier
>> >settings (correct ride height but more gentle ramps). It's hard to
>believe
>> >just how fast the past year has gone!

>> Bruce, just out if interest, what race lengths did you run? I'm about to
>> start a full offline season but I'm stuck between GP Length races for
>> the satisfaction, or 50% GP Length distance for my health :-)

>> --
>> Cheers!
>> Graeme Nash

> -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News
==----------
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/ The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
>------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers

==-----

by **Graeme Nas** » Sun, 10 Oct 1999 04:00:00

You can edit race lengths in the 67season.ini and gp.ini files in the
sierra\gpl\seasons folder.

Each track's entry contains the number of laps for that track at GP
length. You can edit these as much as you want, but note that the change
also affects the other lengths, i.e if you halve GP length, pro/long
also gets halved etc.

--
Cheers!
Graeme Nash

by **Stephen Gree** » Mon, 11 Oct 1999 04:00:00

I believed that GPL was set in 1967 as this was the last year before wings
started to make their appearance. The GPL physics model was complicated and
resource hungry enough, without the addition computational strain of
calculating the different effects of wing angles. Yes you could fake it, but
I don't think that is what David Kaemmer is about.

At the time GPL was released, the ultra highest spec PC's were PII 450's, so
the development was probably done on lower powered machines, (I believe that
Alison was beta testing on a 350). GPL was alleged to work on a lowly P166,
but I think a 233-266 was the real minimum. Now technology has moved on with
PIII 600's being the zenith of computing power, and who knows what it will
be this time next year. There may now be enough power to add the aerodynamic
calculations to the GPL model, (time and money allowing), and give us the
classic 1976 season.

It all depends whether Papy are willing to do the work required for the
small specialist Sim market, or sell the GPL engine to someone who will,
This is why we should be writing to Papy/Sierra.

Here's Hoping

SteveG

by **Richard G Cleg** » Tue, 12 Oct 1999 04:00:00

: I believed that GPL was set in 1967 as this was the last year before wings
: started to make their appearance. The GPL physics model was complicated and
: resource hungry enough, without the addition computational strain of
: calculating the different effects of wing angles. Yes you could fake it, but
: I don't think that is what David Kaemmer is about.

I don't understand this attitude at all. The aero model would be no
more "fake" than the suspension model. The rest of the model assumes
bulk properties - why would it be any different to have an aero model
assuming bulk properties. If you are willing to say "suspension element
X" is a bar with mass m, CofG at x and springyness y. Why is it more
of a con to say "drag x, downforce y, at speed z?" All sim physics is
"canned" (to use a ludicrous phrase which comes up a lot in this group)
- people should get over this block and simply ask "is the results of
what has been canned physically realistic as far as I can tell". In
GPL I'd say it's pretty damn good :-)

--
Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving
Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York.

www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

rec.autos.simulators

GPL2?

GPL2?

GPL2?

GPL2?

GPL2?

GPL2?

GPL2?

GPL2?

GPL2?

GPL2?

GPL2?

GPL2?

GPL2?

GPL2?

GPL2?

GPL2?