rec.autos.simulators

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Thank you, Mark. A kindred spirit, albeit half my age.
BK

> I agree with Bruce on this one. I don't remember much of it myself. I was
6
> in '67. Just some visuals. Flashes of stark white teeth glowing through
the
> grimy faces beneath those open faced helmets. I do remember growing up
with
> a sense of respect for guys like Gurney, Stewart, Rindt, Moss, Hill, Hill,
> and Clark. Why I knew about them I can't say. I grew up on the west coast
of
> the USA. Their heroism just seemed to take the world by storm. Since
buying
> GPL I have a greater understanding of those days. I watch more historic
> races, read more articles and interviews, and feel like I understand GPL
> better because of it. My interest in those years is still growing. Kaemmer
> was definitely on to something.

> (Now if only he would learn how to make a decent racing sim.) :-0

> :-)

> --
> Mark Jeangerard
> www.soundchaserweb.com
> New Mexico USA

> > Look....it's very, very simple to explain the reason for GPL being set
in
> > the 1967 period: David Kaemmer's passion for that era.
> > Now I, for one, agree with his subjective choice 110%.
> > Why? because I'm old enough to remember with clarity the cars, drivers
> and
> > races.

> > So please.....forget about searching for some mysterious reason behind
the
> > era represented because there isn't one. It was simply at least one
mans
> > love of that period which resulted in GPL.

> > > Now i may be wrong...but i think the thing that hurt sales was
actually
> > the
> > > era. If it was 1976-79 instead of 67 it would have been more popular
> for
> > a
> > > couple reasons. The casual F1 fan knows about the Ferrari 312T and
the
> > Tyrell
> > > P34(76&77 only). They know about Laudas crash and about the old
> > Nurburgring.
> > > They know about the Turbo Charging craze in the late 70s and about
> Ground
> > > Effects. Many of them even saw some of these guys drive if they're
old
> > enough.

> > > Unfortunately, even though the Lotus 49 came out, 1967 didnt have as
> many
> > > easily recognisable cars. They couldnt be identified by shape unless
> you
> > know
> > > what your looking for. Plus theres some tracks no one really knows.
I
> > had
> > > never even heard of Rouen untill GPL. Zandvoort is before alot of
> peoples
> > time
> > > as well as Mosport (though still quite visible in North America). In
> all
> > 1967
> > > would have been a GREAT idea IF 1976-79 had been done first or if they
> > were
> > > both featured in the game (or as an add-on pack).

> > > They also left out alot of important features such as an arcade mode
and
> > an
> > > adjustable opponent strength slider. Now im looking at this from a
> > slightly
> > > sideways point of view...but i think im right to some extent. Maybe
not
> > > everything i said is correct...but i know im on the right track.

> > > Chris

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by **Thomas J.S. Brow** » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

> > I wish Papy/Sierra would think about this. I'd love to have a '79 season. The
> > cars would be easier to handle than GPL, but you'd get to race against some of
> > the best. Gilles, Lauda, and all the rest. :) And just think, you could race
> > in a leisure suit. ;) Anyone have any good ideas for what you think a good
> > season would be to recreate?

> My idea for the best year would be 1967. Just think... there wouldn't
> be any wings to glue you to the ground, Tires wouldn't be a soft
> compound and glue you to the ground, ect... it would take a "real"
> driver to race one of those cars ;-)
> --

Who needs wings to glue you to the ground when all that is needed is to drop the ride
height as low as possible and avoid dealing with weight transfer, slap an 85/30 diff
to give the car "faux" anti lock braking? I KNOW....I know..."there's no advantage to
riding low". I suppose thats why so many use 2.5, it "just feels right" as I was once
told by someone.

Still I've not seen anyone run anything in the neighborhood of 4 to 5 inches (which
would be about right for the ring) with a 45/85 (which is about standard for a real
racing car). Of course, that would require an ability to set the car up properly and
drive at the limit of adhesion instead of the limit of the physics modeling.

by **Chri** » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

I drive the Brabham nearly all the time and, at the 'Ring, I
use 4.25/4.75 ride height and a 60/45 diff with 5 clutches.
I just don't have the ability to set up the car to deal with
an 85 ramp angle on the coast side. I find myself spinning
the car out at every corner entrance because I try to hold
the brakes to the apex.

It would be nice to have the ability to fix setups for online
racing like N3 has. Give all entrants the 45/85 diff you're
talking about. THEN we'd find out who has throttle touch! :)

-Chris-

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

by **Michael E. Carve** » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

% >
% >>However, the competition would have been much bigger
% >>aswell.
% >
% >Most arcade racer fans buy every half-decent racer that comes out.
% >Maybe even more so than sim fans, since the replayability or arcade
% >titles is usually shorter.

% Agreed, but would they choose a 1967 title?

Hmmmm, they seemed to like a 1976 based arcade game, Interstate '76????
Maybe Papy was just a little dyslexic and meant to release a 1976 GP
simulation. ;-)

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

by Jo » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Good point. There are also tons of examples of successful other-era
games in other genres. Flight sims, FPS shooters, strategy games - I
REALLY don't think the 1967 thing was a barrier to acceptance.

Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com/
==========================================

by **Thomas J.S. Brow** » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Agreed :>)

by **Joel Willstei** » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

> > Hey, I am with you, we both want the same! But why does GP2 sell 1.5
> > million copys, where GPL does (estimated) 40000? Is it only the
> > drivers assistance, or is it because GP2 was about modern F1? Maybe
> > someone knows the sale figures of Ubisoft's F1RS and MGPRS2?
> > That could be interesting....

> As an Arcade Racing fan I have to admit that I was drooling over GPL
> when I saw previews of it. The idea of driving the older cars was very
> intriguing.

> When I downloaded the demo I assumed that it was the crappiest driving
> model ever, because I couldn't keep the damn car on the track. It ended
> up that I was just the crappiest driver ever, spoiled by arcade racers
> with the physics of a Flinstones car.

> In every arcade racer I've bought I have always enjoyed learning the
> tracks on EASY mode and building up my skills from there. I just didn't
> have the patience to learn the tracks of GPL at 5mph until I could
> handle the car better. I would have much rather learned the tracks in
> an Arcade mode and then slowly added realism feature-by-feature or
> level-by-level...

RemcoM,

This does make a lot of sense to me.

Joel JA Willstein

by **Thomas J.S. Brow** » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Point well taken sir,

I also use 45/85 and ride at 4.00 although I prefer 1 clutch as the more clutches
are used the less the ramps come into play.

I agree also that it is immensely satisfying to drive, and it looks/is correct for
the period. It's a shame that more ppl. don't give it a try.

Perhaps we could talk shop sometime

Thomas

by **Joel Willstei** » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Dave,

I've read and reread your post. And you do have some interesting points.
But I just can't buy the theory that Sierra/Papyrus bought the rights for a
Cart sim through the year 2000,just to save themselves from spending time
and money to make a a new one.

One has to remember that they're in the business of making racing sims.

Joel Willstein

by **Dave Henri** » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

> Dave,

> I've read and reread your post. And you do have some interesting points. But I just can't buy the theory that Sierra/Papyrus bought the rights for a Cart sim through the year 2000,just to save themselves from spending time and money to make a a new one.

> One has to remember that they're in the business of making racing sims.

> Joel Willstein

Papyrus is in the business of making sims. But Sierra and Cedent and
Havas are in the business of making money. sometimes the best way to
make money is NOT to spend it. I'd love a modern CART sim, believe me.
But I just don't see any movement in that direction.
Eric or Tony or any of the Papyrus folks can't/won't say about future
products so I have to go by what's been announced and at least in the
near future...we have planned a yearly update to N3. Thats all folks.
dave henrie

by **Joel Willstei** » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

We keep on bringing up the idea of a Legends of the Brickyard. But in
reality,how can you build a entire racing sim around one race. I really
don't think that the average arcade racer would buy the concept or the sim.
And for that matter,how many of us dedicated sim racers would buy it as
well?

Joel Willstein

by **david kar** » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

man's. Man's.

[snip]

mans love of that period which resulted in GPL.

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by **david kar** » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

yawn--I knew what Tracey was referring to--I bet the-world-minus-Bruce did
too.

by **Tracey A Mille** » Fri, 08 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Joel Willstein wrote

One track yes, one race no. They would need to include multiple car
sets rather than multiple tracks. Pick say 2 great races from each of
the past 3 decades, and model the cars and AI accordingly for that
year.

Do you have any idea what percentage of NASCAR X buyers never race any
other track but Taledega? It's the only track that keyboard drivers
can compete on, and as much as we "dedicated sim racers" may hate to
admit it, keyboard drivers are more important to the bottom line than
we are.

rec.autos.simulators

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