Logitech?
Microsoft?
Which ones are DIGITAL controllers? Which ones analogue?
Whats the difference?
Tell me
I wanna race GPL most of all but precision is MOST important to me.
Which ones are DIGITAL controllers? Which ones analogue?
Whats the difference?
Tell me
I wanna race GPL most of all but precision is MOST important to me.
Act Labs does however have a positioning resolution only slightly lower (and
far better than Microsoft or Guillemot), and also supports the Shifter
(which I use in GPL with great pleasure).
As far as I'm concerned.... these are the ONLY 2 wheels worth considering at
the present moment. You will still get exponentially more precise control
from an analog controller and the PDPI gameport. The best in that field is
the Act Labs RS, and the PDPI Gamecard/cartridge. It boasts the most stable
reporting, the positioning resolution is rock solid at 256 (all axis), and
there is NO taxation on the CPU (unless you consider 0.18% CPU usage
taxation... compared to 50% on the standard gameport with some wheels).
All FF USB wheels are "digital" (all USB wheels for that matter), and don't
be tricked into thinking that the Microsoft Wheel and it's Electro-optic
positioning mechanisms are more accurate... they aren't after you cut into
the positioning resolution to combat the enormous amount of mechanical
jitter that accompanies such internals. Not to mention the brutal rachety
feeling to it.
Hope that helps :)
Cheers,
Shumi
http://www.rs2league.com
> Act Labs does however have a positioning resolution only slightly lower
(and
> far better than Microsoft or Guillemot), and also supports the Shifter
> (which I use in GPL with great pleasure).
> As far as I'm concerned.... these are the ONLY 2 wheels worth considering
at
> the present moment. You will still get exponentially more precise control
> from an analog controller and the PDPI gameport. The best in that field is
> the Act Labs RS, and the PDPI Gamecard/cartridge. It boasts the most
stable
> reporting, the positioning resolution is rock solid at 256 (all axis), and
> there is NO taxation on the CPU (unless you consider 0.18% CPU usage
> taxation... compared to 50% on the standard gameport with some wheels).
> All FF USB wheels are "digital" (all USB wheels for that matter), and
don't
> be tricked into thinking that the Microsoft Wheel and it's Electro-optic
> positioning mechanisms are more accurate... they aren't after you cut into
> the positioning resolution to combat the enormous amount of mechanical
> jitter that accompanies such internals. Not to mention the brutal rachety
> feeling to it.
> Hope that helps :)
> Cheers,
> Shumi
> http://www.rs2league.com
> > Guillemot?
> > Logitech?
> > Microsoft?
> > Which ones are DIGITAL controllers? Which ones analogue?
> > Whats the difference?
> > Tell me
> > I wanna race GPL most of all but precision is MOST important to me.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I know the Logitech and the "Ferrari" wheel are
anolog, they use standard pots.
I'm not so sure about the Microsoft, it might be digital.
I own the Logitech FF, and it's great. I'm not sure about all that
resolution stuff your talking about, but the logitech is very accurate.
The pedals on the Logitech do require awhile to get used to. But I actaully
prefer them now that I've gotten used to them. They seem to be better suited
for people who drive with only one foot.
I was ready to trade off the Interact V4 for the new RS Force but I couldn't
do it. The InterAct V4 wheel has spoiled me. Until a wheel comes along that
has at least equal to performance in force feedback I have to remain
satisfied with this simple but very gratifying wheel.
So I guess the m***of the story is: The mechanical method of determining
the position of the wheel has little to do with whether it's digital. It's
the method in which you report the information to the computer that counts.
It's when you send analog signals to the computer to "comprehend" for you,
that you run into taxation on the system, and the fact that the Standard
Gameport is time-based only increases that taxation exponentially. You save
a lot of time and taxation by translating the signals to digital onboard the
controller itself (hence why every controller manufacturer is desperatly
converting their product lines to USB... including Microsoft and their
"digital technology"...)
It's a common error, and don't feel bad for thinking pots = analog.
FYI,
Shumi
If not, I would love to know how you got GPL to support the free shifting.
Scott
PA-Scott
Powersims.com
--
Scott B. Husted
ICQ# 4395450
Still not sure what Papy is waiting for personally. It's too easy to
implement into the game, and is an ideal addition for GPL particularly.
Cheers,
Shumi
http://www.rs2league.com
I tried starting a 'campaign' for RS Shifter support in GPL at Powersims.com
<VBG>
So I ask again... Anyone who owns a Force RS Wheel and RS Shifter combination
to email Sierra/Papy and ask for support of the RS Shifter.
Hell, even if you DON'T own this combo.. email them anyways! <VBG>
Scott
PA-Scott
Powersims.com
--
Scott B. Husted
ICQ# 4395450
--
Ian Parker
UKGPL League
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
--
> So I guess the m***of the story is: The mechanical method of determining
> the position of the wheel has little to do with whether it's digital. It's
> the method in which you report the information to the computer that
counts.
> It's when you send analog signals to the computer to "comprehend" for you,
> that you run into taxation on the system, and the fact that the Standard
> Gameport is time-based only increases that taxation exponentially. You
save
> a lot of time and taxation by translating the signals to digital onboard
the
> controller itself (hence why every controller manufacturer is desperatly
> converting their product lines to USB... including Microsoft and their
> "digital technology"...)
> It's a common error, and don't feel bad for thinking pots = analog.
> FYI,
> Shumi
> > > All FF USB wheels are "digital" (all USB wheels for that matter), and
> > don't
> > > be tricked into thinking that the Microsoft Wheel and it's
Electro-optic
> > > positioning mechanisms are more accurate... they aren't after you cut
> into
> > > the positioning resolution to combat the enormous amount of mechanical
> > > jitter that accompanies such internals. Not to mention the brutal
> rachety
> > > feeling to it.
> > Correct me if I'm wrong, but I know the Logitech and the "Ferrari" wheel
> are
> > anolog, they use standard pots.
> > I'm not so sure about the Microsoft, it might be digital.
> > I own the Logitech FF, and it's great. I'm not sure about all that
> > resolution stuff your talking about, but the logitech is very accurate.
If only this were the case. Unfortunately the Electro-optical sensors are
susceptible to dust interference etc. that will also interrupt the
positioning information. This is just a fact of life. True they will not
"wear" like potentiometers do (another fact of life), but I emplore you to
ask Microsoft why they have 9 bits of information coming into their
processor, and only 6 bits coming out the other end to the computer. This is
because they have to due to the enormous amount of "mechanical jitter" these
electro-optical sensors produce.
The time it takes the USB chip or separate A->D converters to translate the
analog signal into digital information is considerably shorter than the
amount of positioning data the computer is requesting. Therefor... there is
absolutely NOTHING wrong with using analog pots and translating the
information into digital bits. In fact... the potentiometers are accompanied
by substantially less mechanical jitter than electro-optical sensors, making
potentiometers a better solution at this point in time. You have to
remember... JITTERING is the enemy! It's how you deal with the jitter that
governs the performance of the wheel/joystick overall.
I am sure that you are very happy with your MS wheel, and I am glad this is
the case. However, I cannot allow others to recommend the MS wheel based on
it's technical short comings. I used to think my Nascar Pro wheel was Da
Bomb for the longest time.... until I tried the Act Labs RS w/PDPI
gameport.... then I realized what I had been mising all along. Full 256
positioning resolution (every degree of turn accounted for), no jitters
whatsoever (the PDPI filtering algorithm is brilliant), and I knocked full
seconds off my lap times as a result.
To say that the MS wheel functions great is very subjective and opinion, but
it's technical merits are fact, and fall very short of the competition in
ALL areas. There ARE better out there... I suggest the Logi or the Act Labs
F-RS based on their technical merits and overall pleasure of driving (in my
experience).
Just my 2 cents (which is worth 1 in 2 years).
Cheers,
Shumi
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> --
> Ian Parker
> UKGPL League
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> --
> > Just because wheels use potentiometers does not make them "analog". The
> USB
> > chip will have an A->D (analog to digital) conversion onboard the design
> (in
> > the chip itself, or separatly). Therefor the signal coming out of the
> wheel
> > is digital. This is the case with all USB since you are sending digital
> only
> > signals through there.
> > So I guess the m***of the story is: The mechanical method of
determining
> > the position of the wheel has little to do with whether it's digital.
It's
> > the method in which you report the information to the computer that
> counts.
> > It's when you send analog signals to the computer to "comprehend" for
you,
> > that you run into taxation on the system, and the fact that the Standard
> > Gameport is time-based only increases that taxation exponentially. You
> save
> > a lot of time and taxation by translating the signals to digital onboard
> the
> > controller itself (hence why every controller manufacturer is desperatly
> > converting their product lines to USB... including Microsoft and their
> > "digital technology"...)
> > It's a common error, and don't feel bad for thinking pots = analog.
> > FYI,
> > Shumi
> > > > All FF USB wheels are "digital" (all USB wheels for that matter),
and
> > > don't
> > > > be tricked into thinking that the Microsoft Wheel and it's
> Electro-optic
> > > > positioning mechanisms are more accurate... they aren't after you
cut
> > into
> > > > the positioning resolution to combat the enormous amount of
mechanical
> > > > jitter that accompanies such internals. Not to mention the brutal
> > rachety
> > > > feeling to it.
> > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but I know the Logitech and the "Ferrari"
wheel
> > are
> > > anolog, they use standard pots.
> > > I'm not so sure about the Microsoft, it might be digital.
> > > I own the Logitech FF, and it's great. I'm not sure about all that
> > > resolution stuff your talking about, but the logitech is very
accurate.
Kiddin of course... but it would be pretty neat to have full support in
GPL...
Cheers,
Shumi
http://www.rs2league.com
P.S. Scott.... what ever happened to posting my link on your site?
Regards
Peter Hooper
> Act Labs does however have a positioning resolution only slightly lower
(and
> far better than Microsoft or Guillemot), and also supports the Shifter
> (which I use in GPL with great pleasure).
> As far as I'm concerned.... these are the ONLY 2 wheels worth considering
at
> the present moment. You will still get exponentially more precise control
> from an analog controller and the PDPI gameport. The best in that field is
> the Act Labs RS, and the PDPI Gamecard/cartridge. It boasts the most
stable
> reporting, the positioning resolution is rock solid at 256 (all axis), and
> there is NO taxation on the CPU (unless you consider 0.18% CPU usage
> taxation... compared to 50% on the standard gameport with some wheels).
> All FF USB wheels are "digital" (all USB wheels for that matter), and
don't
> be tricked into thinking that the Microsoft Wheel and it's Electro-optic
> positioning mechanisms are more accurate... they aren't after you cut into
> the positioning resolution to combat the enormous amount of mechanical
> jitter that accompanies such internals. Not to mention the brutal rachety
> feeling to it.
> Hope that helps :)
> Cheers,
> Shumi
> http://www.rs2league.com
> > Guillemot?
> > Logitech?
> > Microsoft?
> > Which ones are DIGITAL controllers? Which ones analogue?
> > Whats the difference?
> > Tell me
> > I wanna race GPL most of all but precision is MOST important to me.