rec.autos.simulators

RASCAR: Black Flag Info

John Simmon

RASCAR: Black Flag Info

by John Simmon » Thu, 27 Mar 2003 21:35:24

With the recent controversy surrounding bogus black flags, I thought
it was a good time to re-iterate some of the finer points of black
flag avoidance. Many times, people just plain don't understand what
happened because their brain goes blank and their eyes turn red as
soon as the spotter tells them that they have been given a black flag
for something. LISTEN TO THE SPOTTER. He will tell you why you got
the black flag, and how to clear it.

First, avoiding black flags requires that you are aware of how the
sim awards them. It is up to you to know this, and I've found that a
valid discovery process involves racing offline against the AI. DO
NOT make the mistake of assuming that the sim accurately models real-
life Nascar.

1) DO NOT pass any cars on your way to pit road. If you do, you will
get a black flag. This is NOT a bogus black flag - it's a built-in
rule in the sim. This kind of black flag will NOT be cleared by
admins.

2) DO NOT pass any cars that have elected to pit while you have not.
This is NOT a bogus black flag - it's a built-in rule in the sim.
This kind of black flag will NOT be cleared by admins.

3) DO NOT pass cars on the inside on a restart (remember, the
"inside" is reversed on road courses) before you pass the
start/finish line.

4) If one or more cars wreck on a restart, go ahead and pass them,
and the admins will try to clear your black flag. When I say "wreck
on the restart", I mean that they're flailing around in the infield
spinnning and bumping into things, and they are most assuredly not in
the racing line. This will be especially true as we come out of the
last turn and just before the green flag flies.

5) Turn your spottter on "HIGH" and DO NOT use the text version of
the spotter. Listen to what he says to you. Many times, a black flag
is cleared by just driving thru the pits, and the spotter WILL tell
you this. If you stop in your pit stall in the case of a drive-thru,
the black flag WILL NOT be cleared.

6) You cannot clear a black flag until you've crossed the
start/finish line on a restart. This means you pretty much have to
complete a full lap under green before trying to clear the black
flag.

7) You cannot clear a black flag during a caution. If you are trying
to clear a black flag under green, and the caution comes out BEFORE
you cross the entry line to pit road, DO NOT ENTER PIT ROAD. This
will result in a penalty for entering a closed pit, and you'll be
forced to the end of the longest line, and your black flag will still
be pending. If you cross the pit entry line BEFORE the caution comes
out, you will be allowed to clear your black flag, and you won't be
penalized with entering a closed pit.

8) You must clear a black flag before you've made three green flag
laps. If you don't, you'll be DQ'd. Many times, your inability to
clear the flag is based entirely on your confusion over how to clear
the flag. LISTEN TO YOUR SPOTTER - HE ONLY TELLS YOU ONE TIME HOW TO
CLEAR THE FLAG.

If someone is awarded a black flag, and they think it's bogus, I
think the admin should force a caution in order to safely clear the
flag.

You better be double-damn sure the black flag is *really* a bogus
one. If the admins think there's too many claims of bogus black
flags, they're gonna stop clearing them, and you'll just have to deal
with it.

Larr

RASCAR: Black Flag Info

by Larr » Fri, 28 Mar 2003 00:46:05

Um, ain't that kinda hard, John?

If we follow this rule, when a yellow comes out and some cars pit, all the
cars that don't pit will have to stop on the track :)

Larry


"2) DO NOT pass any cars that have elected to pit while you have not.
This is NOT a bogus black flag - it's a built-in rule in the sim.
This kind of black flag will NOT be cleared by admins."

Mika Takal

RASCAR: Black Flag Info

by Mika Takal » Fri, 28 Mar 2003 02:01:36

this is not true, at least it wasn't for N2002.

in N2002, you only got the black flag if you crossed the line before the car
you overtook entered the pit lane. You can safely pass a car who is going to
pits, if you are not going 200mph trying to catch the pacecar. It's easy to
get this kind of BF, at least on some shorter tracks. The passing driver has
to be careful... :)

I think it is the same in N2003 too - can someone confirm?

--
Mika Takala

William Bradsha

RASCAR: Black Flag Info

by William Bradsha » Fri, 28 Mar 2003 02:16:26


> Um, ain't that kinda hard, John?

> If we follow this rule, when a yellow comes out and some cars pit, all the
> cars that don't pit will have to stop on the track :)

> Larry



> "2) DO NOT pass any cars that have elected to pit while you have not.
> This is NOT a bogus black flag - it's a built-in rule in the sim.
> This kind of black flag will NOT be cleared by admins."

Forgive me for speaking up, but I believe the "proper" way to do it is to
hold pace speed until you cross the start/finish line (or is that the pit
entrance line?...I always used the S/F line :), then catch up to the car
ahead of you.

Though I do agree it's very silly to be given a black flag over this. IRL,
anyone under the apron for X amount of time is obviously going to pit. Papy
should've fixed this.

-Will

Jan Verschuere

RASCAR: Black Flag Info

by Jan Verschuere » Fri, 28 Mar 2003 02:58:38

The black flag is awarded if you're ahead of the other car when it crosses
the line denoting the start of the pits and pitroad speedlimit in both
games.

Jan.
=---

Tim

RASCAR: Black Flag Info

by Tim » Fri, 28 Mar 2003 03:29:55

Good stuff John

--
Tim White
www.intracmotorsports.com


> With the recent controversy surrounding bogus black flags, I thought
> it was a good time to re-iterate some of the finer points of black
> flag avoidance. Many times, people just plain don't understand what
> happened because their brain goes blank and their eyes turn red as
> soon as the spotter tells them that they have been given a black flag
> for something. LISTEN TO THE SPOTTER. He will tell you why you got
> the black flag, and how to clear it.

> First, avoiding black flags requires that you are aware of how the
> sim awards them. It is up to you to know this, and I've found that a
> valid discovery process involves racing offline against the AI. DO
> NOT make the mistake of assuming that the sim accurately models real-
> life Nascar.

> 1) DO NOT pass any cars on your way to pit road. If you do, you will
> get a black flag. This is NOT a bogus black flag - it's a built-in
> rule in the sim. This kind of black flag will NOT be cleared by
> admins.

> 2) DO NOT pass any cars that have elected to pit while you have not.
> This is NOT a bogus black flag - it's a built-in rule in the sim.
> This kind of black flag will NOT be cleared by admins.

> 3) DO NOT pass cars on the inside on a restart (remember, the
> "inside" is reversed on road courses) before you pass the
> start/finish line.

> 4) If one or more cars wreck on a restart, go ahead and pass them,
> and the admins will try to clear your black flag. When I say "wreck
> on the restart", I mean that they're flailing around in the infield
> spinnning and bumping into things, and they are most assuredly not in
> the racing line. This will be especially true as we come out of the
> last turn and just before the green flag flies.

> 5) Turn your spottter on "HIGH" and DO NOT use the text version of
> the spotter. Listen to what he says to you. Many times, a black flag
> is cleared by just driving thru the pits, and the spotter WILL tell
> you this. If you stop in your pit stall in the case of a drive-thru,
> the black flag WILL NOT be cleared.

> 6) You cannot clear a black flag until you've crossed the
> start/finish line on a restart. This means you pretty much have to
> complete a full lap under green before trying to clear the black
> flag.

> 7) You cannot clear a black flag during a caution. If you are trying
> to clear a black flag under green, and the caution comes out BEFORE
> you cross the entry line to pit road, DO NOT ENTER PIT ROAD. This
> will result in a penalty for entering a closed pit, and you'll be
> forced to the end of the longest line, and your black flag will still
> be pending. If you cross the pit entry line BEFORE the caution comes
> out, you will be allowed to clear your black flag, and you won't be
> penalized with entering a closed pit.

> 8) You must clear a black flag before you've made three green flag
> laps. If you don't, you'll be DQ'd. Many times, your inability to
> clear the flag is based entirely on your confusion over how to clear
> the flag. LISTEN TO YOUR SPOTTER - HE ONLY TELLS YOU ONE TIME HOW TO
> CLEAR THE FLAG.

> If someone is awarded a black flag, and they think it's bogus, I
> think the admin should force a caution in order to safely clear the
> flag.

> You better be double-damn sure the black flag is *really* a bogus
> one. If the admins think there's too many claims of bogus black
> flags, they're gonna stop clearing them, and you'll just have to deal
> with it.

Tim

RASCAR: Black Flag Info

by Tim » Fri, 28 Mar 2003 03:32:19

I always use the pit entrance line William.  If I do and then speed up, I've never gotten BF for that.  But using the S/F just makes
you that much safer, so either one should work.

--
Tim White
www.intracmotorsports.com


> > Forgive me for speaking up, but I believe the "proper" way to do it is to
> hold pace speed until you cross the start/finish line (or is that the pit
> entrance line?...I always used the S/F line :), then catch up to the car
> ahead of you.

> Though I do agree it's very silly to be given a black flag over this. IRL,
> anyone under the apron for X amount of time is obviously going to pit. Papy
> should've fixed this.

> -Will

Mika Takal

RASCAR: Black Flag Info

by Mika Takal » Fri, 28 Mar 2003 04:10:27



You might be right, but I haven't got any BF's and I have passed cars in
these kind of situtations.

--
Mika Takala

Gerald Moo

RASCAR: Black Flag Info

by Gerald Moo » Fri, 28 Mar 2003 06:44:06


> 1) DO NOT pass any cars on your way to pit road. If you do, you will
> get a black flag. This is NOT a bogus black flag - it's a built-in
> rule in the sim. This kind of black flag will NOT be cleared by
> admins.

I'm curious how the sim defines "passing" in this instance.

If you pull onto the apron and maintain pacing speed at some of the
tracks (Loudon for instance) you will arrive at the entrance to the
pits before the cars that elect to stay out are to turn 4 because the
radius is smaller on the access road that it is on the track.  Where
and how does it check to see if you have passed someone?

I would guess as long as you maintain pacing speed at all times once
you have caught up to the field you would be OK.  I've never raced at
Loudon when yellows were on (I am not THAT ***ic) so can anyone
fill me in here?

Gerald

Dave Henri

RASCAR: Black Flag Info

by Dave Henri » Fri, 28 Mar 2003 07:05:33





>> 1) DO NOT pass any cars on your way to pit road. If you do, you will
>> get a black flag. This is NOT a bogus black flag - it's a built-in
>> rule in the sim. This kind of black flag will NOT be cleared by
>> admins.

> I'm curious how the sim defines "passing" in this instance.

> If you pull onto the apron and maintain pacing speed at some of the
> tracks (Loudon for instance) you will arrive at the entrance to the
> pits before the cars that elect to stay out are to turn 4 because the
> radius is smaller on the access road that it is on the track.  Where
> and how does it check to see if you have passed someone?

> I would guess as long as you maintain pacing speed at all times once
> you have caught up to the field you would be OK.  I've never raced at
> Loudon when yellows were on (I am not THAT ***ic) so can anyone
> fill me in here?

> Gerald

   I would think it would be up to you, the driver, to maintain your spot
behind whichever car stayed out ahead of you.  You can use the side look
keys or the F2 key which, after hitting the spacebar, shows real-time track
placement.  
   Be thankful this isn't the 60's at Indy...there you were expected to
maintain your distance when the yellow flew...so that if you were 10 car
lengths behind when the yellow came out...you must circle the track and
stay 10 car lengths back until you pit or the green comes out.
dave henrie
John Simmon

RASCAR: Black Flag Info

by John Simmon » Fri, 28 Mar 2003 07:22:41

In a crowd of experienced drivers, that would be a funny remark, but
I bet it backfires on you...
:)


says...

> Um, ain't that kinda hard, John?

> If we follow this rule, when a yellow comes out and some cars pit, all the
> cars that don't pit will have to stop on the track :)

> Larry



> "2) DO NOT pass any cars that have elected to pit while you have not.
> This is NOT a bogus black flag - it's a built-in rule in the sim.
> This kind of black flag will NOT be cleared by admins."

John Simmon

RASCAR: Black Flag Info

by John Simmon » Fri, 28 Mar 2003 07:23:31



You are absolutely wrong. You CANNOT pass the pitting car UNTIL he
has crossed the pit road line.

John Simmon

RASCAR: Black Flag Info

by John Simmon » Fri, 28 Mar 2003 07:25:41




> > 1) DO NOT pass any cars on your way to pit road. If you do, you will
> > get a black flag. This is NOT a bogus black flag - it's a built-in
> > rule in the sim. This kind of black flag will NOT be cleared by
> > admins.

> I'm curious how the sim defines "passing" in this instance.

If you get to the line that starts pit road before the car that was
in front of you, you will get a black flag for passing under yellow.
Michael Horto

RASCAR: Black Flag Info

by Michael Horto » Fri, 28 Mar 2003 09:45:12

Hey John,

Is this in response to a Bristol race? I'm asking because in our league race
on Sunday I ended up parking the car to try and make sense out of the BF
calls guys were making. What I found was that while they hadn't passed
anyone going into the pits when they came out out the back pits and were
circling around to the front set they would get a BF if they had happened to
advance past another car that was on the track. To me this is a serious bug
that needs to be looked at by Papy.

Mike Horton
http://www.cta-racing.com/gscl


Eldre

RASCAR: Black Flag Info

by Eldre » Fri, 28 Mar 2003 15:55:47



>"Mika Takala" wrote...
>> > <snip>
>> this is not true, at least it wasn't for N2002.

>The black flag is awarded if you're ahead of the other car when it crosses
>the line denoting the start of the pits and pitroad speedlimit in both
>games.

That's what I thought.  So then if that car slams on the brakes(say, to get
under the pits speed limit), then you can get screwed...

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:-1.680
MonsterRank: +334.169
N2002 Rank:+17.59

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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