--
Scott B. Husted
PA-Scott
ICQ# 4395450
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > "John Pancoast" wrote...
> > > <snip>
> > > Agreed.
> > Please, don't encourage him. <g>
> > Jan.
> Oh, I don't think Dave needs anyones encouragement on anything he has a
> strong opinion on <g> Besides, he has a point imo.
> John
--
Scott B. Husted
PA-Scott
ICQ# 4395450
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > > I also agree GPL is the best single-seater, etc. Same with the
Nascar
> > > sims. But I also don't think they're not without major flaws, and if
> > > Company X made them, they'd be hammered left and right I bet.
> > Really? That's wierd. Why?
> It happened in the case of F1 2002. The *** Papy fanboys thought it
> was mediocre until Doug Arnao did wonders with the underlying physics
engine
> in GTR 2002. I find nothing that drives better than GTR 2002. I'm sure
> there are many who still claim "it's no GPL". While it's fair to say that
> ISI didn't maximize their engine with F1 2002, it was still far better
than
> it was given credit by some GPL fanatics. The "true" expert (Arnao) knew
> the quality of the sim all along. Classic double standard.
> --
> Joe M.
John
> --
> Scott B. Husted
> PA-Scott
> ICQ# 4395450
> http://www.Husted.cc
> > > "John Pancoast" wrote...
> > > > <snip>
> > > > Agreed.
> > > Please, don't encourage him. <g>
> > > Jan.
> > Oh, I don't think Dave needs anyones encouragement on anything he has
a
> > strong opinion on <g> Besides, he has a point imo.
> > John
--
Scott B. Husted
PA-Scott
ICQ# 4395450
http://www.Husted.cc
> John
> > You aren't allowed to have an opinion flight boy!! ;)
> > --
> > Scott B. Husted
> > PA-Scott
> > ICQ# 4395450
> > http://www.Husted.cc
John
> --
> Scott B. Husted
> PA-Scott
> ICQ# 4395450
> http://www.Husted.cc
> > Lol ! Hey Scott, I was wondering the other day, did anything ever
come
> > with that beta testing for a Trak sim or whatever that Stevens was
> > organizing ?
> > John
> > > You aren't allowed to have an opinion flight boy!! ;)
> > > --
> > > Scott B. Husted
> > > PA-Scott
> > > ICQ# 4395450
> > > http://www.Husted.cc
Yeah, Silver is kinda bumby ;)
Mitch
I'm a financier & economist, not an accountant! When number don't match,
we financiers & economists just create new formulas to get the numbers to
match our results!! LOLOL ;)
--
Scott B. Husted
PA-Scott
ICQ# 4395450
http://www.Husted.cc
> John
> > I haven't heard anything about it for quite some time actually. But I
> > haven't been subscribed to OLR for about 6 months now, although I may go
> > back depending on NR2003.
> > --
> > Scott B. Husted
> > PA-Scott
> > ICQ# 4395450
> > http://www.Husted.cc
> > > Lol ! Hey Scott, I was wondering the other day, did anything ever
> come
> > > with that beta testing for a Trak sim or whatever that Stevens was
> > > organizing ?
> > > John
> > > > You aren't allowed to have an opinion flight boy!! ;)
> > > > --
> > > > Scott B. Husted
> > > > PA-Scott
> > > > ICQ# 4395450
> > > > http://www.Husted.cc
With the not unreasonable assumption that GT cars have stiffer
suspensions than the sportiest of road cars I've been a passenger in
(Elise, F355, 360 Modena) along with lower profile tyres and far less
creature comfort, I would imagine that the back pain is less from the
car "bouncing" but from transference of the bumps through the seat of
the pants. The road cars definately give your ***something to feel
without bouncing and no doubt a racing version would be a lot more,
erm, communicative ;-)
My *guess* based on my world view (as opposed to some bizarre desire
to slam ISI) is that the track bumps are exagerated.
Regards,
Mark
<SNIP>
:)
*rips the intertwined-P Papy badge off your armband*
Someone load Achim into the train and ship him to EA-Dachsau.
(Ok that's in bad taste, sorry.)
Jason
No he's not.
The perceptive ones always have.
Very shortly after release, even before the V1.1.0.3 patch, a Papyrus
programmer (forgot who it was) admitted on this very forum, the tyre model
had been fudged with respect to the beta because of gameplay issues.
What actually happened between the "Papy fanboys" and David G. Fisher was he
started claiming superiority for titles which threw up FAR more physics
inconsistencies than GPL. All the "Papy fanclub" ever said was "regardless
of it's flaws it's still (technically) the best."
Anybody who claims to be in the business of making racing sims (and even the
makers of NFS Hot Pursuit use the word "simulation" in their blurb), must
match or better Papyrus. It's that simple. Games with controller issues,
blatant physics inconsistencies, poor multiplayer and poor support by means
of no patches to fix issues will receive a pasting. Papyrus has set a high
standard, both for other companies and themselves.
I don't think there's any doubt F1 2k2 is technically a better simulation
than GPL, but possibly slightly flawed physics implementation, controller
issues (again!!... if Ashley McConnell can do it, why can't EA Sports?) and
poor multiplayer prevented it from establishing a foothold with the ***
crowd. There is absolutely no doubt the SBDT have outdone Papyrus in the
single player experience, regardless of the fact it's still an F1 game
underneath and therefore all aspects of FIA GT racing could not be modelled.
The common factor is you read something that isn't there. Papyrus sims have
refined the simracer's palet and made him more critical rather than less.
This has had an adverse effect on the appreciation of other efforts, sure,
but it's not in a racer's nature to accept mediocrity.
You'd lose that bet... those who get their stuff right are almost
universally praised. LFS, GTR2002 and, up to a point, Rally Trophy and F1
2k2 are cases in point. Papyrus have had their fair share of criticism as
well. You conveniently forget the aftermath of the v1.1.0.3 patch... the
online GPL community wasn't a warm and welcoming place for a Papyrus coder
around that time.<g> A lot of criticism has been leveled against the way
draft works in NR2k2, Papyrus' handling of wreckers and wallriders and
such...
Also, the point is not that Papyrus sims don't have flaws, the point is
Papyrus usual manage to produce the better overall game and, when things
don't work out, are willing to get off their asses and do something about
it.
Jan.
=---
Good, because 43 stock car drivers are wrong, just like the 20-odd each F1
and CART drivers etc., etc...
They all do it because they see others do it and think it helps, even though
telemetry refutes it and realistically, it doesn't do anything which can't
be acchieved in one or two relatively sharp corners.
When someone goes down the road because the tyres were dirty, he/she goes
down the road because he/she wasn't driving the footprints, i.e. not paying
attention, not because the tyres had reduced grip. Eventhough it squirmed at
the green flag and pushed a bit through that kink they turn expecting a
certain grip level of which they have indications of it just not being
there. Result: big embarrassment and a cover story for the press.
Of course, he who is free of sin cast the first stone and what have you... I
can't do it, but I don't claim to be good enough to make a living at this
sort of thing either.
Jan.
=---
Christ, didn't mean to make it into a pissing match. I got nothing
against Papy, etc. Own every piece of software they've made, and I'd buy
anything else they made sight unseen.
It's just imo Jan. I think it's correct, you think it's not. No big
deal. I'm certainly not trying to change anyone's viewpoint, and it sure as
hell ain't worth arguing about.
John
Well, it happens to be my pet argument, so sue me! ;-))
Jan.
=---
:)
John
