I gotta agree about the bumps David. They are pretty much un-noticeable to
vert.. The sim that models bumps is GTR2002. Now that's some vertical
movement.
> > Hi Dave,
> > Chad already gave us an impressive changelog for a 'minor update' ;-)
but
> > the list doesn't mention some aspects I personally find important.
> > - the AI that fender rubbing now works a lot better, and the odds are
more
> > realistically distributed between the AI and the human player than
before.
> > - there's an option to include various levels of telemetry into the
> replay.
> > This gives use more control over the replay size and also a better way
to
> > check cheating in controlled environments like leagues and hotlap
charts.
> Neither one of those things mean much to me as I don't race offline,
> cheating should be obvious, and hotlapping in NASCAR is somehthing I'll
neve
> rmake time for.
> > - as for the bumps, Michigan doesn't have many, but you can clearly
notice
> > them for example coming out of T4.
> > I suppose they're subtle on the real
> > track as well? You may need to crank up the FF, it's pretty subtle in
> N2k3.
> If they are there at all, they are so tiny as to be irrelevent. Hardly a
> feature worrth promoting.
> > - things like the windscreen buildup, solar effects or the movable
driver
> > seat aren't graphics, they're improvements towards more realism as they
> > play a role in real racing.
> Those are features that have been in other sims for a long, long time. Big
> deal.
> > - excellent sensation of speed
> Seems no different to me.
> > - the snappiness that has always existed in Papy's sims under certain
> > circumstances has been reduced to a credible level. This has so far been
> my
> > only gripe with Papy's physics, and it's been cured now. I don't know
> > whether it required a substantial change in some of the underlying
> formulae
> > or only an adjustment of parameters, but anyway. It's nice to have.
> It's funny, but jason seems to be saying the opposite. Maybe he's talking
> about something else.
> "Seems like there's more grip when the tires
> are heated and the wings/tires are oriented correctly in terms of
> shouldering the weight of the car, but if you get out of the groove
> and continue pushing hard the car wants to turn around faster than
> before."
> > - I find the damage partly more realistic actually, when it's been set
to
> > realistic - it corresponds better to how the impact actually occurs. As
> for
> > the maximum level of damage incurred, well, this is a beta demo, we'll
see
> > how they fine-tuned it for the final product.
> > - as for the changed physics, that's IMHO no contradiction. Papy had
more
> > credible physics than their compeition since GPL, which did fairly well
> what
> > real cars do, but of course they got improved every year. What a real
> > _Nascar_ does, neither of us knows, and that probably even differs from
> year
> > to year as different tires and rule changes are introduced, and from car
> to
> > car. Sims can only be an appoximation of a common denominator there.
N2002
> > had a detailed physics model which under most circumstances in a
credible
> > way did what a real car would do - that's all you can expect. And it did
> it
> > better than most other sims, except IMHO the GTR2002 mod which is pretty
> > darn impressive as well. N2003 now introduces the know-how of an actual
> > Nascar race engineer, and hence feels more like a real average Nascar
(ar
> > rather, like the ones this engineer builds and maintains). That's nice
> > progress, but doesn't invalidate previous physics models - both the old
> and
> > the new one were credible physics models for a car.
> Obviously Papyrus had the grip levels wrong in N2002 or they wouldn't have
> changed so much in N2003. Obviously those who INSISTED that Papyrus had
them
> correct were wrong. Just like they were wrong when they insisted they were
> accurate in GPL. Kaemmer confirmed that himself eventually.
> I'm glad they changed the tire model in N2003. What I don't understand is
> why it is so hard for them and their devoted fans to see when the grip
> levels are off in their sims. I'm not a NASCAR fan at all, but after just
a
> bit of time with N2002, and watching some races, it was obvious that what
> was being done in the real races was not able to be recreated by the most
> experienced N2002 drivers due to the way the tires were modeled. The
> difference slapped you in the face. Other Papyrus NASCAR sim veterans said
> the same thing as well, and were told they were wrong. Same type of
scenario
> with GPL. Why does it take a NASCAR engineer (shouldn't they of had
someone
> from NASCAR working with them a long time ago?) to make changes that
someone
> like me can see right away? Do they listen to beta testers opinions? Do
the
> beta testers do anything but say everything's great, and give feedback on
> compatability issues? Who knows.
> Again, I see N2003 as a minor update to N2002. The changed grip level
could
> of been done in a patch to N2002 10 months ago if they'd just asked me my
> opinions, and I'm not even a NASCAR fan. :-p
> David G Fisher
