rec.autos.simulators

You're right on that one, except that both doesn't affect steering the
same way.  The inertia of the car itself will not stop you from
changing the angle of your wheels, but will certainly induce
understeer as tires slide away from the direction you are turning in.
But then I guess this understeering could also create forces that
fight back the wheel's movement.  But having driven a motorcycle I can
tell you that at high speed the rotational inertia of the wheel cannot
be neglected.  I'd have to calculate to see what would be the
magnitude of the inertial forces, but I'd need some info about the
diameter of thye wheels and infos on weight distribution.  Again I
conceed that I may be wrong, I'm studying chemical engineering, not
mechanical...  We've had courses about static and dynamic physics
though, so I'm not completely ignorant (I hope!).

Ok, but it seems wrong...  I find that all corrections that I try to
make are getting too strong a response from the car...  Of course with
all the G's missing it's hard to tell, but visually (and that's the
only way we can drive at this time - until FF) I can't really feel in
total control of my car on a straightaway.

I'm almost there, I'll try it to full but I doubt that will come into
play when I'm on a straightaway...

Thanks for your interesting response.

A. Renault

The only difference will be in any compliant components, which are
small. 15 degrees of steering deflection at arbitrary speed will
produce the same amount of front tire articulation, to within very
small differences.

However, that 15 degrees of wheel deflection can require dramatically
different forces on the wheel to acheive.

Which is why good forcefeedback will be a HUGE win. (However, by my
definition of "good", it's unlikely to be sold for anything less than
four figures USD.)

---Jim

Why should I? All of the racing sims I'm interested in, allow me to
select
the pedals for gas/brake (ICR2, N2, F1RS, final GPL?, not CPR, not GP2)

I agree completely...

l8er
ronny

--
How to get rid of censorship in German game releases
<http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm>

          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Don't forget that the tires used then where probably more heavy (I
think - I'm no expert) so they must create important gyroscopic
effects.

But if you combine this to the understreer you get at high speed,
won't it be noticeable?

That's correct.  And that's why we need FF...   But until then they
(sim developpers) have to find another way to resolve this issue.  I'd
agree though that GPL is a step in the good direction, because of it's
incredible physics engine.  It doesn't mean it's perfect and cannot be
improved.

Eheheh...  I agree...  But I would be able to cope with "less than
good" at this time, if I could find any reliable device at a
reasonable price.

Thanks Jim for your interesting comments.

A. Renault

I think it has to do with the fact that they are running with stiff
suspensions and a very direct steering.  This transfers every bump and
irregularity on the track back to the driver's hands making them look very
busy.  But in fact, the drivers are trying to keep the wheel steady.
Remember, smoothness = speed!

Lawrence Lo

I've tried setting linearity to full and what I experienced was worst
than what it was before in terms of being everywhere on the track on
straightaways...  Just like I expected quite frankly.

When you move this slider to the left, you decrease sensibility at the
right and left extremities of your controller's movement, but you
increase it near it's center position, and that's just what I was
complaining about, the car being too nervous when you're driving in a
straight line.  I could increase non-linearity but then the problems
move to the corners instead of straights, so anyway I'm going to have
trouble with this option.

I'd be one happy man if they'd include a "reduce with speed" style of
slider...  Maybe it can still happen, I hope so...  And if it's there
and you don't want to use it then you'll only have to set it to zero,
that's all...

A. Renault

Matt

--

Matthew Birger Knutsen
Cheek Racing Cars (http://home.sn.no/~kareknut)

"Racing cars is like dancing with a chainsaw"
       -Cale Yarborough

When and IF FF is ever developed to where it becomes of value as
anything beyond "arcade game tricks" it is going to be expensive to
implement.

Sure we'll see a bunch of plastic toy wheels claiming to have FF but
I'll bet if you had a look at the motors, etc you'd get a good laugh.

Thomas Enterprises will do FF someday maybe but if we do its going to be
done to the same quality standards as the rest of our product and as you
say, it will be well into the 4 figure range.

Trev

On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:28:25 +0200, Matthew Knutsen

I'll agree with you that sensitivity at full helps me a lot trough the
turns, but it's quite a handful on the straights...  For now I'm alone
on the track so there's no problem, but when I'll be trying a pass in
between two AI cars I want to feel as much in control as possible, so
then it's gonna be a real pain in the a$$.  Maybe it's gonna be easier
in the full release though, so I'm not panicking.  But I'm sure trying
to make as much noise as I can about this issue, so it'll maybe get to
someone's ears (eyes) at Papy...  eheh!

A. Renault

The problem here is that even if the FF wheel that will appear on the market
in the next year are very basic and don't show how a real wheel in a
real-life car would react upon this situation.

But I'm sure I will buy one of those.  Knowing that they don't offer the
best FF on the market. Because at least it's better to have "little" FF than
none. That's why I think FF wheels under 300$ will have incredible sales.

Maybe someday the good FF wheels will I hope get under the critic 500$
market (the limit so that everybody could buy it IMHO, demand/offer).  But
while waiting, I will support FF by buying one of those wheels, to at least
get a little more experience of reality than my normal T2 wheel (soon to be
a TSW2, just need to see my next AF schedule and pay check).

Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-)

Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
Member of the r.a.s. Ego-maniac club
Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking)

--"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

I`ve seen this several times now and have to ask, twice the body weight
?

Where did that came from, it says on the info screen that all these cars
weigh under 1200 lbs, which I find to be more or less in line with my
own knowledge (limited) of this era, these were very small cars after
all.

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
UncleGoy on TEN

PS I "do" agree with you though :-)

"Real" racecars don't have servos! NASCAR stockers do... :-)

---Jim "still a huge fan of WWF^H^H^HNASCAR" Sokoloff

They have.  Sahara Speedworld in Las Vegas.  :o)  And it's pretty damn
realistic (speaking from much experience).

I'm sure someday someone is going to market a driving console complete with
chair that will make you sick and dizzy just to take a couple of laps at
Bristol.  All they will need to do is incorporate the virtual reality helmet
into the whole thing and we'll have people dying of heart attacks as the wall
out of turn four at Phoenix comes at them at 180+ mph.  

"Oh .. this is gonna hurt! ... DID YOU SEE THAT GUY?!?!"

Dave

http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/4340