rec.autos.simulators

by **Neil Yeatma** » Mon, 01 Jul 1996 04:00:00

> : "The patch" is a DOS-only patch. It brings the DOS version up to date
> : with the DOS version in the retail package you saw (that package has
> : DOS Win 95 & Mac on 1 CD). It (the patch) does not change the DOS
> : version to Win 95.

> : Ed Martin
> : Producer, Series Director
> : NASCAR Racing League
> : Papyrus / Sierra On-Line, Inc.

> Ed, I truly hope you have "mispoken" about this. Since we were told (at
> least here in r.a.s. and on America On-Line) by representives of your
> company that we would receive a "free" patch and upgrade to the
> DOS/Win95 version of ICR2. If you do not provide such, I sincerely
> believe this is a breach of contract.

> I do not think your company would think lightly of me if I promised to
> send you $60.00 if you sent me a copy of ICR2 and 7 months later I said,
> "No, I have changed my mind. I will keep the copy of ICR2, but I will
> only send you $12.50." That would be a breach of contract and you would
> have m***and legal grounds to attempt to retrieve $47.50 from me.

> Your company made a decision to delay developing a patch for the DOS
> version of ICR2 so you could devote work to the Win95/Mac version. In
> that sense I see myself and other ICR2 DOS owners as having financed
> the Win95/Mac version. After 7 months of your having had my investment
> "funds", I feel you are morally obligated to return us a dividend on
> that investment. All we are expecting for this dividend is what we were
> told we would receive, a free patch and upgrade to the Win95 version.

> --
> **************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
> Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Hear hear!

Papyrus should have put out the damn DOS patch months ago, well prior to
the release of the Win95 version. They should have patched the DOS version
before continuing coding the Win95 game, and should easily have been out
before Christmas.

Now, as I recall, prior to the actual release of ICR2, Rick Genter had said
that the game would ship with a coupon for the upgrade to the Win95 version.

When I brought the game home a few days later, there was no coupon in the
box. A couple of e-mails got me no further on info regarding this coupon.

Now we know why...
--
Meek and obedient you follow the leader
down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel..

Neil Yeatman, Ajax, Ontario, CANADA

by **CMar..** » Mon, 01 Jul 1996 04:00:00

>: "The patch" is a DOS-only patch. It brings the DOS version up to date
>: with the DOS version in the retail package you saw (that package has
>: DOS Win 95 & Mac on 1 CD). It (the patch) does not change the DOS
>: version to Win 95.

>FOUL! FOUL! We have been told numerous times by various Papyrus people
>that we would be receiving a patch to upgrade our DOS version AND a
>patch to upgrade to the Win95 version! This is one of the reasons many
>of us were trying to be patient for the release of this infamous patch.

>This is BAD costumer support. Ed, this is totally unbelievable. Jerk
>us around for 7 months about a patch for a crippled program. Promise us
>one thing and then snatch it away on the eve of its delivery.

I agree, I was under the impression of a Win95 patch from Day 1. I remember
when ICR2 was shipping last year we were told of a "coupon" to upgrade to the
Win95 version, then there was no coupon, but a "promise" that a patch would
be available. Now we are told that is not going to be. If this is true, I am
highly disappointed in Papyrus/Sierra. This is bull. I feel like everyone
else in that the LOYAL customers that paid for ICR2 MANY months ago to assure
good sales in good faith that they would give us the Win95 patch, have been
SCREWED. I feel we should demand the upgrade. If it is not given as promised,
I can guarantee that I will never buy any Papyrus/Sierra products again.

Craig Marcho

by **CMar..** » Mon, 01 Jul 1996 04:00:00

>: "The patch" is a DOS-only patch. It brings the DOS version up to date
>: with the DOS version in the retail package you saw (that package has
>: DOS Win 95 & Mac on 1 CD). It (the patch) does not change the DOS
>: version to Win 95.

>FOUL! FOUL! We have been told numerous times by various Papyrus people
>that we would be receiving a patch to upgrade our DOS version AND a
>patch to upgrade to the Win95 version! This is one of the reasons many
>of us were trying to be patient for the release of this infamous patch.

>This is BAD costumer support. Ed, this is totally unbelievable. Jerk
>us around for 7 months about a patch for a crippled program. Promise us
>one thing and then snatch it away on the eve of its delivery.

I agree, I was under the impression of a Win95 patch from Day 1. I remember
when ICR2 was shipping last year we were told of a "coupon" to upgrade to the
Win95 version, then there was no coupon, but a "promise" that a patch would
be available. Now we are told that is not going to be. If this is true, I am
highly disappointed in Papyrus/Sierra. This is bull. I feel like everyone
else in that the LOYAL customers that paid for ICR2 MANY months ago to assure
good sales in good faith that they would give us the Win95 patch, have been
SCREWED. I feel we should demand the upgrade. If it is not given as promised,
I can guarantee that I will never buy any Papyrus/Sierra products again.

Craig Marcho

by **Charlie Hea** » Tue, 02 Jul 1996 04:00:00

>I knew Sierra was the hold up :-).

>Sierra are like anybody else (media) who is not a dedicated motorsport
>follower, they couldn't give a shit about it unless somebody dies.

Bzzzt! Wrong answer. The holdup has been at Papyrus; not really a holdup
at that, just people doing their jobs. Converting final WINDOWS code into
a releasable DOS patch was not a trivial exercise.

The patch is in QA _at Papryus_. After that is completed, the patch will
be sent to Sierra, and Sierra will do final testing. Someone from Papyrus
will post on RAS as soon as the patch is available for download.

Charlie Heath
Papyrus Design Group.

by **Faston Bulbo** » Tue, 02 Jul 1996 04:00:00

>). It (the patch) does not change the DOS
>version to Win 95.
>Ed Martin
>Producer, Series Director
>NASCAR Racing League
>Papyrus / Sierra On-Line, Inc.

Ed, you are going to get skewered for this. The Win95 version was
explicitly promised as a free download patch as early as December '95.
(and numerious times after that).

by **Mike Manthe** » Tue, 02 Jul 1996 04:00:00

> Ok, I hink we've all let off enough steam about the patch.

I think the consumers have just begun.

This is not slight.

Dear Sierra/Papyrus.
Do NOT make this mistake.
If you had no intention of following through with what Mr. Genter had promised
in this newsgroup, you should have made the correction immediately.
By letting it go for months, you have fueled a fire which you cannot put out
with rhetoric or empty jargon.

I'm curious... was there theoretically something to be gained by this??
It didn't work.
Mike

by **Ed Mart** » Tue, 02 Jul 1996 04:00:00

>> Ok, I hink we've all let off enough steam about the patch.
>I think the consumers have just begun.
>> So lets be nice to them when they appear to have let us down slightly.
>This is not slight.
>Dear Sierra/Papyrus.
>Do NOT make this mistake.
>If you had no intention of following through with what Mr. Genter had promised
>in this newsgroup, you should have made the correction immediately.
>By letting it go for months, you have fueled a fire which you cannot put out
>with rhetoric or empty jargon.
>I'm curious... was there theoretically something to be gained by this??
> It didn't work.
>Mike

Mike,

I've posted info in other threads regarding this... here's the
latest...

The DOS to Win 95 patch is too big for a downloadable update.
Papyrus/Sierra is working out the details, but the plan is to provide
current owners of DOS ICR II a means to get the new CD & user's guide
for essentially cost of handling. Something along the lines of "send
back your old CD & we'll send out a new one".

It's certainly not that we had no intention of following through on
what Rick said. Frankly, Rick was in no position to say what he said
because the official decision had not been made & it was not his to
make.

Regardless, I will let you know more as soon as I know more. Please
follow the other threads.

Ed Martin
Producer, Series Director
NASCAR Racing League
Papyrus / Sierra On-Line, Inc.

by Jo » Tue, 02 Jul 1996 04:00:00

>> "The patch" is a DOS-only patch. It brings the DOS version up to date
>> with the DOS version in the retail package you saw (that package has
>> DOS Win 95 & Mac on 1 CD). It (the patch) does not change the DOS
>> version to Win 95.

>> Ed Martin
>> Producer, Series Director
>> NASCAR Racing League
>> Papyrus / Sierra On-Line, Inc.
>I'm really disappointed in this. When I purchased ICR2 for DOS, I was
>under the assurance that the WIN95 version would be a free upgrade. Now
>this sounds like the patch will be only a DOS patch? What gives?

I also find this extremely disappointing, and as far as I can tell,
misleading by Papyrus as well. I was certainly under the impression
that the Win95 patch was going to be downloadable for DOS users too,
based on many statements to that effect from Papyrus employees over
the last severl months. It's the same damn game right? Why the hell
should early adopters be penalized and forced to stay on the DOS
platform? I can't think of any reason at all, except for a blatant
cash-grab by Sierra/Papyrus.

This makes me even less impressed by the fact that we've had to wait
seven months to get a working DOS version (that's still not here), so
that Papyrus could work on a seperate, Win95 project that we now find
out has absolutely nothing to do with us. There was a time when I
would buy any Papyrus game, unseen, but this experience has soured me.
They're off working on new products instead of supporting their
existing customers and that just plain sucks, frankly. It is a very
poor way to treat your loyal customers.

Joe

by Jo » Tue, 02 Jul 1996 04:00:00

>major bugs. If this is to be nothing more than a DOS fix, then the delay for
>the patch is completely unjustified. It seems logical to me that a patch for
>a seriously flawed current version should be released before a new version
>ships. This is extremely poor customer support.

Exactly. It's inexcusable, the kind of behaviour I'd expect from a
company that doesn't give a damn about their current customers. This
probably won't prevent me from buying future Papyrus products, but I
will certainly not buy them "sight unseen" as I would have before. I
will wait and research it carefully first, to see if it is buggy. And
if it is, I will not buy it until a patch is available, period.

Joe

by Jo » Wed, 03 Jul 1996 04:00:00

>>). It (the patch) does not change the DOS
>>version to Win 95.
>>Ed Martin
>>Producer, Series Director
>>NASCAR Racing League
>>Papyrus / Sierra On-Line, Inc.
>Ed, you are going to get skewered for this. The Win95 version was
>explicitly promised as a free download patch as early as December '95.
>(and numerious times after that).

Ya, I would have been pretty pissed, the idea of getting the win95
version took the edge off of 7 months of waiting...

And guess what: this is what Ed is telling us. I frankly don't think
it is too bad- in fact, I am really psyched to get a CD with the clean
version on it!!!!

________________quoted stuff follows___________________

>OK... here's the latest...
>The DOS to Win 95 patch is too big for a downloadable update.
>Papyrus/Sierra is working out the details, but the plan is to provide
>current owners of DOS ICR II a means to get the new CD & user's guide
>for essentially cost of handling. Something along the lines of "send
>back your old CD & we'll send out a new one.
>That's all the details I have for now. As soon as I know more, so
>will you!
>Ed Martin
>Producer, Series Director
>NASCAR Racing League
>Papyrus / Sierra On-Line, Inc.

by **Michael E. Carv** » Wed, 03 Jul 1996 04:00:00

: It's certainly not that we had no intention of following through on
: what Rick said. Frankly, Rick was in no position to say what he said
: because the official decision had not been made & it was not his to
: make.

Ed, now that Rick is gone, let's not make him the scapegoat. Your
company is known to monitor this newsgroup. The intentions were also
made known on American On-Line by other Papyrus representives than Rick.
If the "official" decision was not to go through wth the plans we
would/should have seen posts saying such.

I have followed the whole thing here on r.a.s. and on Papyrus's official
AOL area. Rick can not be left the one holding the bag. This
apparently was a "last minute" decision. Papyrus/Sierra obviously does
not want to spend the "man-hours" it would take to create a Win95
upgrade/patch. Instead they want us to pay them for costs plus a small
margin to get the upgrade/patch. I am willing to pay for postage,
anything over and beyond that is totally uncalled for.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

by **Mike Manthe** » Wed, 03 Jul 1996 04:00:00

...just another heads up to Sierra/Papyrus....

Your not-so-loyal-anymore-since-we've-been-burnt customers will complain in a
forum that's much larger than just a newsgroup.
Don't play the game.
Fix this now.

Mike

by **Ed Mart** » Wed, 03 Jul 1996 04:00:00

>: It's certainly not that we had no intention of following through on
>: what Rick said. Frankly, Rick was in no position to say what he said
>: because the official decision had not been made & it was not his to
>: make.
>Ed, now that Rick is gone, let's not make him the scapegoat. Your
>company is known to monitor this newsgroup. The intentions were also
>made known on American On-Line by other Papyrus representives than Rick.
>If the "official" decision was not to go through wth the plans we
>would/should have seen posts saying such.
>I have followed the whole thing here on r.a.s. and on Papyrus's official
>AOL area. Rick can not be left the one holding the bag. This
>apparently was a "last minute" decision. Papyrus/Sierra obviously does
>not want to spend the "man-hours" it would take to create a Win95
>upgrade/patch. Instead they want us to pay them for costs plus a small
>margin to get the upgrade/patch. I am willing to pay for postage,
>anything over and beyond that is totally uncalled for.
>--
>**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
> Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

We're not making Rick the scapegoat by any stretch of the imagination.
I'm just trying to let everyone know the situation & that we're trying
to take care of it as best we can.

Ed Martin
Producer, Series Director
NASCAR Racing League
Papyrus / Sierra On-Line, Inc.

by **Neil Yeatma** » Wed, 03 Jul 1996 04:00:00

> >: It's certainly not that we had no intention of following through on
> >: what Rick said. Frankly, Rick was in no position to say what he said
> >: because the official decision had not been made & it was not his to
> >: make.

> >Ed, now that Rick is gone, let's not make him the scapegoat.

Snip!

Note that the first statement above, "Rick was in no position to..." was
made on July 1st, the first business day after Rick left the company. Why
didn't you speak to him about it prior to his leaving Papyrus? Why did
you wait until he left to say something like that?

Here is Rick's old sig:
----
Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II
Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

----
=> Does this say anywhere "The opinions expressed are my own and not those
of Papyrus Design Group, Inc." ???

Nope...this says "I'm Rick Genter, and I'm speaking for Papyrus". Does this
make it legally binding? Maybe. Does it make it morally binding? Absolutely.

Rick wasn't the only Papyrus staffer monitoring this newsgroup. If his
statements were untrue, they would have been retracted months and months ago.

Sierra/Papyrus better own up to this one.

It's bad enough you guys didn't put out the DOS patch back in December when you
should have. Not once have I seen a post from anybody at Papyrus say, "Sorry
guys, we blew it, we have too much on our plate, and a schedule to meet". All
we ever got was, "The Patch will be out with the Windows95 release in mid
June..wait for it".

Is this going to be your attitude with Nascar2? The product is out the door,
let's dump the code and get on with the next project? If so, I'll wait until
it hits the $9.99 bargain bin, and then I'll shoplift it.

Neil
--
Meek and obedient you follow the leader
down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel..

Neil Yeatman, Ajax, Ontario, CANADA

rec.autos.simulators

INDYCAR 2 ( PATCH)

INDYCAR 2 ( PATCH)

INDYCAR 2 ( PATCH)

INDYCAR 2 ( PATCH)

INDYCAR 2 ( PATCH)

INDYCAR 2 ( PATCH)

INDYCAR 2 ( PATCH)

INDYCAR 2 ( PATCH)

INDYCAR 2 ( PATCH)

INDYCAR 2 ( PATCH)

INDYCAR 2 ( PATCH)

INDYCAR 2 ( PATCH)

INDYCAR 2 ( PATCH)

INDYCAR 2 ( PATCH)

INDYCAR 2 ( PATCH)