rec.autos.simulators

Ed,

I realize you guys are working VERY *** Nascar 2 and it is very much
appreciated!

I have a question though, why can't you implement the Hawaii physics model
into a patch for Nascar 1.21 users?  It is very irritating to not be able to
test a Hawaii setup with the AI.  It also makes me not even try to setup a car
for 1.21 because I know it is unuseable for Multiplayer.  I don't care about
all of the other things you have and are adding, just the physics, PLEASE!

I want to be able to use all of my setups with the AI, and not have to bug a
friend to hook up for modem play with multi.exe, which doesn't work perfectly
without a server involved.

Anyone else agree with me???

Thanks for you time and support!

Regards,

Todd

I also find this very frustrating.  I'd love to be able to test my setups
against over cars without having to pay LD rates.  Then, when I've got a setup
I like, take it to Hawaii.

Couldn't we please, please, please have the Hawaii physics model for standalone
??

- Paul

Ed Martin
Producer, Series Director
NASCAR Racing League
Papyrus / Sierra On-Line, Inc.

Please, Ed, Me too.  I would love to have the ability to use the multi.
exe physics model against the AI cars.  I need the practice.
Tom

Based on the fact that we can Modem race with AI cars using MULTI.EXE,
I'd venture a guess that the only thing missing is the ability to
select Single Race from the menu.

I'd be happy with this turned on as an unsupported option in
MULTI.EXE.

PLEASE consider this the next time the team generates a version of
MULTI.EXE.

Thanks,

Brad

Sorry!  :-(

Ed Martin
Producer, Series Director
NASCAR Racing League
Papyrus / Sierra On-Line, Inc.

[snip]
: >I have a question though, why can't you implement the Hawaii physics model
: >into a patch for Nascar 1.21 users?  It is very irritating to not be able to
: >test a Hawaii setup with the AI.  It also makes me not even try to setup a car
: >for 1.21 because I know it is unuseable for Multiplayer.  I don't care about
: >all of the other things you have and are adding, just the physics, PLEASE!

[snip]
: I also find this very frustrating.  I'd love to be able to test my setups
: against over cars without having to pay LD rates.  Then, when I've got a setup
: I like, take it to Hawaii.

: Couldn't we please, please, please have the Hawaii physics model for standalone
: ??

I really shouldn't say anything, considering the FLAP caused by the
"lateness" of the ICR2 patch.  But having followed r.a.s. for years and
also monitoring Papyrus' AOL technical board...  We were told that once
they fixed the "easy" yellows in the Hawaii version we WOULD see a
patch for the stand-alone NASCAR.  Well, Ed has since posted that we
will not see a patch (except for upgrading to version 2.0).  I
personally feel let down by this "slight".  I'm hooked and will buy
version 2.0, even if they don't patch/fix 1.21 --  However, I am not
happy about it.  I strongly suggest that Sierra give the added resources
to the Papyrus group to let them live up to their earlier word on a fix
for NASCAR 1.xx.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

sent shooting through ***space:

Michael --

Normally I agree with you about things in this newsgroup, but here I
must disagree.  I don't see the point of putting new wine in old
bottles, so to speak -- why patch an older version of the sim, which
is likely to be SLOWER than the 2.0 version?  Would you rather they
divert resources from the 2.0 project to patch 1.21, which would
probably set back the 2.0 release date?

I look at it this way -- 2.0 is an UPDATE instead of a new simulator,
much as people might persuade me otherwise.  I will consider a version
a COMPLETELY new version once the track tools, car models, etc. are
completely rewritten (ie. no curved pit roads, etc.), because I will
assume it's from the ground up.  So, in essence, the patch you want
for 1.21 will be done in November.
--

IWCCCARS Project Coordinator
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~iwcc/project.htm
Hawaii Racer ID: IWCCCARS

i thought you were able to run the Multi version and race AI cars .It was
under MultiB12 i thought.You could D/L it off off the MP service at one
time.Correct me if i am wrong.

I am suprised nobody has hacked into multi.exe to find a way to make it
work like nascar.exe or vice versa.

Gene

I don't want to get into a long discussion about what is a "new
product" vs what is an "updated product".  Everyone has their own
threshold.  However, we consider NASCAR Racing 2 a new product, not an
upgrade.  Do not expect a "patch".

Ed Martin
Producer, Series Director
NASCAR Racing League
Papyrus / Sierra On-Line, Inc.

Our only real option was to hold back on including those fixes in the
Hawaii version of NASCAR, and we decided it was better to give you guys the
fix for multiplayer racing now than to delay any release until NASCAR II.
Sorry, thats just how it is.

Charlie Heath
Papyrus Design Group

: OK... before we start another ICR 2 "patch incident", I want to be
: VERY clear on this:  At this time there are NO PLANS to offer a
: "patch" to NASCAR 1.x to "upgrade" it to NASCAR 2.

: I don't want to get into a long discussion about what is a "new
: product" vs what is an "updated product".  Everyone has their own
: threshold.  However, we consider NASCAR Racing 2 a new product, not an
: upgrade.  Do not expect a "patch".

Okay, Ed, I can live with this.  It doesn't make me tickled pink, but at
least I know the realities.  If my sacrafice of limping along with a
slightly marred NASCAR 1.21 will make the reality of NASCAR2 & NRL &
"reasonalbe" cost network connection possible I'll do it.

I just hope that you can really produce a "cleaner" version of NASCAR2
out of the box than NASCAR1 & the ICR's were.  With ICR1 you were
very good in releasing fixes in a timely manner.  It seems that you may
have over extended your resources when putting together NASCAR & ICR2.
All I can hope is that Sierra can provide you with the resources you
need to put out a truly excellent product for us racing junkies.

No matter how loud we scream and cry don't rush it until it's right.
And if Sierra screams that it has to be out before it's ready, you tell
them I gave you permission to get some added resources from Sierra's
talent pool.  I am sure they will understand.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

The stuff that people are looking for in v1.22 (or whatever a
successor for 1.21 might be called) has been caused by enhancements
made to make MULTI work.  MULTI is a prototype... all of Hawaii is a
prototype.  

NCR came out in November, 1994. Almost 2 years ago.  For a 2 year old
product, NCR 1.x is pretty damned good.  2 years ago, it was ahead of
"state-of-the art".

I know everyone thinks it would be great if products were just
"free-patched" to death in order to make major changes/jumps, but it
just can't work that way.  Microprose isn't patching World Circuit
(GP1) to death to come out with GP2, and we can't do it for NCR 2.
There are man-years worth of effort that goes into products like this.

Sorry to jump on the soapbox again, but I think some of the things
you've said are a little unfair.  There is not a single perfect
computer product out there ANYWHERE... there never will be.  We just
try to do our best, and in the case of NCR, I've think we've done even
more.

Ed Martin
Producer, Series Director
NASCAR Racing League
Papyrus / Sierra On-Line, Inc.