rec.autos.simulators

RASCAR: Texas

jon

RASCAR: Texas

by jon » Tue, 16 Jul 2002 02:25:36

First off, sincerest apologies to Uwe for spinning you out. Was not
intentional, was completely my fault, and if there was any justice in this
cruel world, I would have spun out with you and finished dead last. Sorry.


> Actually, Joon actively blocked me in order to keep me "between him and
> 2nd place (who was not near close enough to catch him before the end of
> the race).  I  actually rear-ended him as we exited turn 2 with one lap
> to go because he was trying to run the low line.  I was clearly faster
> and was beginning to make the pass on him (I was 3 laps down in 8th
> place), yet he insisted on blocking me.  He almost got spun out for his
> trouble.

Allow me to explain.........

Midway through the race I decided to take a gamble on pit strategy. No one
seemed to be pitting on that last caution we had, and I thought might just
be able to make it from there while everyone else would still need to stop
again. Luckily I was right about that. Please understand that by the time we
got to the last 3 or 4 laps, I did not have a car capable of being very
competitive.

Though I did indeed desperately want to keep someone (preferably as many
people as possible) between me and zugzug, that does not mean that I was
going to prevent you from passing at all costs. All you had to do to pass me
was do what LBT Racer did... get alongside me. Soon as he did that,
it was his.

Yes, I was running the low line. In the turns I really had no choice. When
LBT and Bfarmer went by forcing me to go higher, it was all I could do to
keep from riding the wall. Yes I was slower than you -- I had to let off the
throttle
sooner and get back on it later than you, both to conserve gas and to stay
low.
If you had chosen to take your fresh tires to the high line in a turn, you
were more than welcome to it.

Understand that normally I would pull over and let a faster car by,
*especially* if we were not on the same lap. This was different. I was in
first place at the end of
the race, I could see the second place car in my rear view mirror. Whether
he actually posed a threat or not I would only know in hindsight. All I knew
at the moment was that you were serving nicely as an obstacle for him to get
by before I would have to worry about him, and if you didn't like the
position you were in you could darn well earn your way out of it. I was not
going to lift my skirt hem and give it to you.

Now about this business of you rear ending me. I have watched this replay
from nearly every view over and over and over, and I can state with no trace
of uncertainty, that this was just plain foolishness on my part. The plan
was to come out of the turn in the center of the track and hold it there til
the next turn. What I did not realize until after the fact was that I was
giving absolutely no room for you to drift up the track, which you did with
uncanny precision. Perhaps it was my inexperience at sim racing which led to
this grievous error on my part; maybe it was the fact that I was flush with
e***ment at the prospect of my first ever online win. Regardless, I
screwed up there, and all the weak excuses I could muster in a lifetime
would not change that. I definitely should have given room at that point,
and I apologize for not doing so. Thankfully fate allowed me to learn my
lesson without wrecking the both of us.

My connection was flakey? People told me about my connection several times?
Did anyone else see this? My latency showed a low green bar the whole race.
On my end there was a minimal amount of lag between us -- the only person I
saw in the whole race with lag of any consequence was I think #37, or maybe
it was #39. Naturally this can be different from person to person, and I
suspect in your case may have been magnified by a deep dislike of having to
pass someone without knowing ahead of time that it's a sure thing, though I
will admit this is pure speculation on my part.

In closing allow me to quote from a post you made several days ago.......

"What they're talking about is staying on the bottom all the way around
the track.  That's not racing (at least not in my book).  Technically,
it also isn't blocking, but it *is* bad form."

I can see why you don't like it. I can see why you say it is bad form. I
also could see that if you added up all the ***, fuel, and bad form I had
at the end of this race, 'bout ALL you would have is bad form.

Would I do it again? you can bet your sweet bippy's......

jon

RASCAR: Texas

by jon » Tue, 16 Jul 2002 02:44:51


It goes something like "Our Father, which art in Heaven, hallowed be thy
name......"

:)

Dave Henri

RASCAR: Texas

by Dave Henri » Tue, 16 Jul 2002 02:51:40


  That'll be enough of that Jon,  Racarians don't accept blame!  lol
remember it's either lag or "just one of them racin' deals"  :)
dave henrie

jon

RASCAR: Texas

by jon » Tue, 16 Jul 2002 02:53:16

lag. right. got it. :)




> > First off, sincerest apologies to Uwe for spinning you out. Was not
> > intentional, was completely my fault, and if there was any justice in
this
> > cruel world, I would have spun out with you and finished dead last.
Sorry.

>   That'll be enough of that Jon,  Racarians don't accept blame!  lol
> remember it's either lag or "just one of them racin' deals"  :)
> dave henrie

John Simmon

RASCAR: Texas

by John Simmon » Tue, 16 Jul 2002 03:14:51



> First off, sincerest apologies to Uwe for spinning you out. Was not
> intentional, was completely my fault, and if there was any justice in this
> cruel world, I would have spun out with you and finished dead last. Sorry.


> > Actually, Joon actively blocked me in order to keep me "between him and
> > 2nd place (who was not near close enough to catch him before the end of
> > the race).  I  actually rear-ended him as we exited turn 2 with one lap
> > to go because he was trying to run the low line.  I was clearly faster
> > and was beginning to make the pass on him (I was 3 laps down in 8th
> > place), yet he insisted on blocking me.  He almost got spun out for his
> > trouble.

> Allow me to explain.........

> Midway through the race I decided to take a gamble on pit strategy. No one
> seemed to be pitting on that last caution we had, and I thought might just
> be able to make it from there while everyone else would still need to stop
> again. Luckily I was right about that. Please understand that by the time we
> got to the last 3 or 4 laps, I did not have a car capable of being very
> competitive.

So why didn't you just take your chances with the cars you were racing
for position?  *YOU* put yourself in that position, nobody else did, and
if the 2nd place car had been close enough to make it viable, I would
have let him by without a fight because I wasn't racing him.  I was
trying to get at leaat one lap back.

I couldn't get inside you because you weren't allowing it.  Driving the
low line is a bullshit maneuver.

Now you most certainly must be aware that I'd lose any speed advantage
by going high while you hugged the apron.  Going high wasn't an option
*for me*.

- Show quoted text -

In closing, let me say... Don't block me (or anyone else) like that
again.

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jon

RASCAR: Texas

by jon » Tue, 16 Jul 2002 04:02:32


> So why didn't you just take your chances with the cars you were racing
> for position?  *YOU* put yourself in that position, nobody else did, and
> if the 2nd place car had been close enough to make it viable, I would
> have let him by without a fight because I wasn't racing him.  I was
> trying to get at leaat one lap back.

Yes I did put myself there, but to tell you the truth, I was fine with my
position. YOU seemed to be the one who had a problem with my position. And
up until the RASCAR rule page was updated, there was no rule stating that I
HAD to give you the lap back. Now, of course, it appears to be
mandatory......

*IF* I was hugging the freakin apron the whole way around the track, that
might be a bs maneuver. But I was not. There *was* room for a car to pass me
on the inside except in turns......

Likewise.

Of *course* not. Not now that the rules state I am *required* to let you by.
Maybe you should present your rule to NASCAR officials; perhaps they would
like to institute it in future Winston Cup events.

While you are at it, maybe a rule  stating something like "No disagreeing
with John."

p.s. I would seriously feel a lot better about that little bump you gave me
on the last lap if you would accept my apology for it.

redTe

RASCAR: Texas

by redTe » Tue, 16 Jul 2002 04:52:41

Gods gift to sim racing........LOL

Joachim Trens

RASCAR: Texas

by Joachim Trens » Tue, 16 Jul 2002 07:33:17

Jon,

I was explained by the Nascar experts some time ago that some blocking on
the last one or two laps is acceptable.

I can't talk about how you pulled it off as I wasn't there, and you can
always discuss the pros and cons of a strategy or move, but I can't find
anything majorly wrong about what you intended to do.

Achim


> First off, sincerest apologies to Uwe for spinning you out. Was not
> intentional, was completely my fault, and if there was any justice in this
> cruel world, I would have spun out with you and finished dead last. Sorry.


> > Actually, Joon actively blocked me in order to keep me "between him and
> > 2nd place (who was not near close enough to catch him before the end of
> > the race).  I  actually rear-ended him as we exited turn 2 with one lap
> > to go because he was trying to run the low line.  I was clearly faster
> > and was beginning to make the pass on him (I was 3 laps down in 8th
> > place), yet he insisted on blocking me.  He almost got spun out for his
> > trouble.

> Allow me to explain.........

> Midway through the race I decided to take a gamble on pit strategy. No one
> seemed to be pitting on that last caution we had, and I thought might just
> be able to make it from there while everyone else would still need to stop
> again. Luckily I was right about that. Please understand that by the time
we
> got to the last 3 or 4 laps, I did not have a car capable of being very
> competitive.

> Though I did indeed desperately want to keep someone (preferably as many
> people as possible) between me and zugzug, that does not mean that I was
> going to prevent you from passing at all costs. All you had to do to pass
me
> was do what LBT Racer did... get alongside me. Soon as he did that,
> it was his.

> Yes, I was running the low line. In the turns I really had no choice. When
> LBT and Bfarmer went by forcing me to go higher, it was all I could do to
> keep from riding the wall. Yes I was slower than you -- I had to let off
the
> throttle
> sooner and get back on it later than you, both to conserve gas and to stay
> low.
> If you had chosen to take your fresh tires to the high line in a turn, you
> were more than welcome to it.

> Understand that normally I would pull over and let a faster car by,
> *especially* if we were not on the same lap. This was different. I was in
> first place at the end of
> the race, I could see the second place car in my rear view mirror. Whether
> he actually posed a threat or not I would only know in hindsight. All I
knew
> at the moment was that you were serving nicely as an obstacle for him to
get
> by before I would have to worry about him, and if you didn't like the
> position you were in you could darn well earn your way out of it. I was
not
> going to lift my skirt hem and give it to you.

> Now about this business of you rear ending me. I have watched this replay
> from nearly every view over and over and over, and I can state with no
trace
> of uncertainty, that this was just plain foolishness on my part. The plan
> was to come out of the turn in the center of the track and hold it there
til
> the next turn. What I did not realize until after the fact was that I was
> giving absolutely no room for you to drift up the track, which you did
with
> uncanny precision. Perhaps it was my inexperience at sim racing which led
to
> this grievous error on my part; maybe it was the fact that I was flush
with
> e***ment at the prospect of my first ever online win. Regardless, I
> screwed up there, and all the weak excuses I could muster in a lifetime
> would not change that. I definitely should have given room at that point,
> and I apologize for not doing so. Thankfully fate allowed me to learn my
> lesson without wrecking the both of us.

> > This goes to prove that blocking in ANY way is NOT a good idea when
> > you're racing online.  Joon's connection was pretty flakey too, and if
> > he had warped when I was trying to pass him, he'd have wrecked us both.
> > He had been told about his connection a couple of times during the race.

> > I thought it was un-sporting, and dangerous besides.

> My connection was flakey? People told me about my connection several
times?
> Did anyone else see this? My latency showed a low green bar the whole
race.
> On my end there was a minimal amount of lag between us -- the only person
I
> saw in the whole race with lag of any consequence was I think #37, or
maybe
> it was #39. Naturally this can be different from person to person, and I
> suspect in your case may have been magnified by a deep dislike of having
to
> pass someone without knowing ahead of time that it's a sure thing, though
I
> will admit this is pure speculation on my part.

> In closing allow me to quote from a post you made several days ago.......

> "What they're talking about is staying on the bottom all the way around
> the track.  That's not racing (at least not in my book).  Technically,
> it also isn't blocking, but it *is* bad form."

> I can see why you don't like it. I can see why you say it is bad form. I
> also could see that if you added up all the ***, fuel, and bad form I
had
> at the end of this race, 'bout ALL you would have is bad form.

> Would I do it again? you can bet your sweet bippy's......

Brian Oste

RASCAR: Texas

by Brian Oste » Tue, 16 Jul 2002 05:42:29






>> > Yeah great run guys. Only problem I had all race was getting put in the wall
>> > under yellow on lap 58. Still don't quite get it...but hey I'll take 6th with
>> > no incidents caused :)
>> > Dan

>> Dan, sorry 'bout spinnin' you.   I had slowed w/ you when JS was coming off the
>> wall, but didn't leave enough distance when you hit the brakes (tho on my screen
>> I just missed you & had no damage, but you moved like I hit you)...  my bad

>Then, as I was catching up to the pace line, the pace car passed the
>entrance to pit road, and I swooped in, but apparently not before
>passing #27 car.  The sim awarded me with a black flag.

I knew you had a stop-n-go because my spotter was telling me to "pass
the 43 car", and my F2 screen showed you ahead of me as you entered
the pits.  I woulda passed you and saved you the black flag, but I
would have needed to pass the pace car to do it... besides I figured
you could take care of yourself.

As soon as the yellow came out I thought to myself "43 you lucky dog".
What you shouldv'e done was pitted for the BF.  Your pit stall was
after the S/F line, so you would have served your BF and been able to
come all the way around the track to take the yellow and stay on the
lead lap since I would not have taken the yellow yet.

Brian Oster

jon

RASCAR: Texas

by jon » Tue, 16 Jul 2002 05:52:00

I have watched this replay repeatedly from John's***pit on two different
replay's, and fail to see what I did wrong, except perhaps not giving quite
enough room when he went to pass. He did get by though, as I began to
sputter out of fuel just before the finish line.


John Pancoas

RASCAR: Texas

by John Pancoas » Tue, 16 Jul 2002 06:08:11


  Jan, if you looked at the entries conn numbers and they were fine, chances
are their conn problems happened after that.  Iow, unless you looked at
their conn numbers when they were warping, etc.

  Also fwiw, in the races I've been in, you've blinked in and out quite a
bit, so maybe that has something to do with too.  Hope this helps.

John

- Show quoted text -

Eldre

RASCAR: Texas

by Eldre » Tue, 16 Jul 2002 07:46:09



>You're missing the point Eldred (like you missed a great race... a
>wedding? -sheesh!!).

Yeah well...she said there would be single women there, too...<g>

Eldred
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Eldre

RASCAR: Texas

by Eldre » Tue, 16 Jul 2002 07:46:09



>Congrats to jonn li!

Sorry - *joon* li...<sigh>

Eldred
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Eldre

RASCAR: Texas

by Eldre » Tue, 16 Jul 2002 07:46:08



>I think I earned the "most stupid move of the day" award by
>"unsafely entering the pits" after my *qualifying run* if you
>can believe it. My time would have put me in the top ten, but I
>had to start from the back. 8-P

Done that before.  I realized that I hadn't practiced pit entry, so used my
qual cooldown for that.  Speeding - DQ...

Done that, too - Pocono, I think<g>

Eldred
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Eldre

RASCAR: Texas

by Eldre » Tue, 16 Jul 2002 07:46:08



>Yes I did put myself there, but to tell you the truth, I was fine with my
>position. YOU seemed to be the one who had a problem with my position. And
>up until the RASCAR rule page was updated, there was no rule stating that I
>HAD to give you the lap back. Now, of course, it appears to be
>mandatory......

Mandatory?  I don't remember that - John...?

Eldred
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