rec.autos.simulators

GPL AND TNT...

Remco Moe

GPL AND TNT...

by Remco Moe » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00


>What a bunch of shit. GP2/ICR2/Nascar2 have survived very nicely with no D3D
>support.

Different timeframe...

C:PR ?

* Duck *

Remco

Zonk

GPL AND TNT...

by Zonk » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00



>>What a bunch of shit. GP2/ICR2/Nascar2 have survived very nicely with no D3D
>>support.

>Different timeframe...

And can you imagine them being released now, fresh, with no 3D hardware
support from the box?

Z.

P.S: are Self-styled "hard-core" Race Sims drivers that entrenched in their
own world that they know so apprently little of the 3D *** revolution of
the last 2 years? :)

Michael E. Carve

GPL AND TNT...

by Michael E. Carve » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00


% There it is....buy the hardware for the software. Simple stuff. Yea
% that TNT is sure fast....great specs.....awesome card....doesnt run
% GPL...ooops.

% Voodoo 2's are selling for the cost of 3 games...

Damn, you mean I'll have to upgrade my ZX-81!  Shit, just as soon as I
brought the memory to 16k.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Scott Moor

GPL AND TNT...

by Scott Moor » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00




>>>or a 3Dfx card.  i seem to _never_ drop below 30fps with a 333 and a
voodoo 2
>>>card.  why are you making this sound like rendition is the only solution.

>>>last i checked, very nearly _every_ game on the market is supporting 3Dfx
>>>hardware in some form or shape.

>>>and for the amount of speed one of these cards produced (especially over
any
>>>Riva 128 card) for the price it's now listed at, i don't see the
>>>justification for your argument.

>>>put a crowbar in your wallet and buy one.  you'll be amazed.

>>>-jch

>>I have SLI V2's, and since buying a TNT, i really wouldn't touch 'em. They
>>just can't compete anymore in image quality, and the TNT is only a bit
slower.

>>Z.

>I should add that the TNT is cheaper than one V2, let alone SLI, too.

>Z.

And it'll stay cheaper, as long as nobody writes software with native TNT
support......you bought it, you live with it.
Zonk

GPL AND TNT...

by Zonk » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00


>>>I have SLI V2's, and since buying a TNT, i really wouldn't touch 'em. They
>>>just can't compete anymore in image quality, and the TNT is only a bit
>slower.

>>>Z.

>>I should add that the TNT is cheaper than one V2, let alone SLI, too.

>>Z.

>And it'll stay cheaper, as long as nobody writes software with native TNT
>support......you bought it, you live with it.

Er?

there is no *native support* actually.

And i think you'll ifnd that GPL is certainly the only new release which isn't
supported. Why? because developers moved on, papy didn't. :)

Their loss, not mine.

Z.

Zonk

GPL AND TNT...

by Zonk » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00


>there is no *native support* actually.

er, for native support, read native API.

Z.

COOP

GPL AND TNT...

by COOP » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00


>>Why is D3D "a bear" to program? it is a hell of a lot easier than
>>writing non-accelerated graphics routines-
>BULLSHIT.

Since the release of DX5, that is entirely NOT bullshit... ;-)

-moggy

--
gary cooper (not the dead one)    

Kesmai Studios Air Warrior Product Support
          http://www.cris.com/~cooper

COOP

GPL AND TNT...

by COOP » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00


>>>1) D3D is a bear to program, and would have cost Papyrus more
>>>development money.

>>Well, our programmer didn't have much trouble.
>What, he worked for nothing?! :-)

No - he worked.  Did his job,  Figured out the API and used it.
Now we have a 3D sim that supports the vast majority of 3D cards
out there.

Didn't take him long and it certainly wasn't a "bear" ;-)

-moggy

--
gary cooper (not the dead one)    

Kesmai Studios Air Warrior Product Support
          http://www.cris.com/~cooper

Trip

GPL AND TNT...

by Trip » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00


> And i think you'll ifnd that GPL is certainly the only new release which isn't
> supported. Why? because developers moved on, papy didn't. :)

> Their loss, not mine.

Meanwhile, you're the one complaining, not them.

Trips

Maps

GPL AND TNT...

by Maps » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00



>>Come on, Papy- let's have OpenGl or D3D support so this sort of thread
>>doesn't have to roll on for a year... it ain't helping sell product.
>When you bought your Riva, you knew that you would be restricted to
>Microsoft's D3D API.

>Remember?

No, you mean it wouldn't support 3Dfx's API. Why should it support a
proprietary instruction set? It already supports the two top API
standards.

I am not sure where you are going here- Microsoft supports at least
two sims with D3D- it's flying simulation and it's CART simulation.
Maybe it's golf sim too... I don't know.

Fortunately, I'm not selling anything to you.

If you love the performance of your sim so dearly, why are you
complaining in to this thread, which basically regards stuff Papy
*doesn't* support? SOunds like you have some racing to do.

CPR is performance challenged?! You may not like it, but it's D3D
gives me over 30 FPS, full detail! ANd with double the default horizon
distance. The AI is not marvelous, but the car model is superior to
anything out there that I am able to run (GP2, ICR2, N2). ANd that is
mostly what matters to me.

Not Papyrus' "stuck-in-last-year" mentality.

<...>

You mean sales? Microsoft. Now why did you make me have to say that?
That is distasteful.

You are basically saying you are pleased that Papy neglected to add
D3D or OpenGL support? I don't get it- if your sim is working fine,
what are you complaining about other people's complaints for? You
should be racing.

... that's ironic!

Hey, I almost broke down under Sierra's pressure. But in the end, I
could figure out no way to keep my current (and better for most
purposes) card and a new one on my system at the same time. Know a
way? Win98 lets you.

Maps

GPL AND TNT...

by Maps » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00

On 20 Oct 1998 04:49:33 GMT, "Dave Henrie"

<...>

Actually, I am a Riva128...

So how do you do it? How do you switch, without completely reloading
all drivers? are there IRQ conflics?

OpenGL is nearly 15 years old, if memory serves. Silicon Graphics was
using it for real graphics projects back when home PCs only had
monochrome.

Only for what they write on the outside of their box. Papy wrote a
game not specifically for PC, but for a video card. They should have
put that in their minimum requirements.

Maps

GPL AND TNT...

by Maps » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00



>>>>1) D3D is a bear to program, and would have cost Papyrus more
>>>>development money.

>>>Well, our programmer didn't have much trouble.

>>What, he worked for nothing?! :-)

>No - he worked.  Did his job,  Figured out the API and used it.
>Now we have a 3D sim that supports the vast majority of 3D cards
>out there.

>Didn't take him long and it certainly wasn't a "bear" ;-)

In my experience, The "bear" was coming to terms with the Windows API
in the first place- after you've spent 6 months doing that, the
DirectX API looks like the most well organized thing MS ever did!
Which isn't saying much. But unlike proprietary card APIs, and unlike
OpenGL, DirectX combines sound, networking, graphics, and 3D
capabilities within one API, so in many ways it is a lot easier to do
game programming in general.

I'd say it is "a bear" to learn any given proprietary card API knowing
that it may not last another year.

Pau

GPL AND TNT...

by Pau » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00



>> Their loss, not mine.
>Meanwhile, you're the one complaining, not them.
>Trips

Hehehe..
Ronald Stoe

GPL AND TNT...

by Ronald Stoe » Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:00:00



> >>>1) D3D is a bear to program, and would have cost Papyrus more
> >>>development money.

> >>Well, our programmer didn't have much trouble.

> >What, he worked for nothing?! :-)

> No - he worked.  Did his job,  Figured out the API and used it.
> Now we have a 3D sim that supports the vast majority of 3D cards
> out there.

Yepp, and has quite mediocre graphics, too! Of course, that's only
because it's a big multiplayer flight sim... ;^)

l8er
ronny

--
How to get rid of censorship in German game releases
<http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm>

          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Wolfgang Prei

GPL AND TNT...

by Wolfgang Prei » Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:00:00

[snip]

My guess is that they didn't have the experience/Manpower to make a
proper port to one of those APIs within the given timeframe until
release. They have experience with coding Rendition/RRedline and 3DFX,
but not with D3D or OpenGL, AFAIK. Just a guess, as I said.

I must say that I was surprised about the decision to ship GPL without
support for most of the newer 3D chips, however. In hindsight, it
would surely have been a better decision to srcap the "software
acceleration" mode and do a Direct X port.

[snip]

I don't know if this isn't a grotesque answer, but I would try and get
a cheap (used?) VooDoo 1 card if I were you. You won't get top notch
performance, but solid 36fps at 640x480 with 15 or so opponents and a
few options turned off should be possible on your system (PII 300,
IIRC).

--
Wolfgang Preiss   \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.



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