rec.autos.simulators

GTA3 - the best driving game of all time?

Joe6

GTA3 - the best driving game of all time?

by Joe6 » Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:25:51

I've been playing driving games since the days of Pit Stop on the
Commodore-64. Hell, before that even - remember the "Night Driver"
arcade game and the cartridge version you could buy for the Vic-20?
I've been a big fan of great driving games ever since, including GPL.

Caveat: I am currently working on arcade driving games (The Simpsons
Road Rage) for a living.

Grand Theft Auto 3 (GTA3, just released on the PS2) may well be the
greatest driving game of all time.

This game is so absolutely masive - much greater in scope than
anything that's been attempted before - that it's hard to even know
where to begin. So maybe I'll just break it down into categories and
start from there.

Physics
=======

The driving experienced is incredible. Everything from family sedans
to humvees to vipers and ferraris to buses and 18-wheeler trucks are
modedeled, and everything in between. This may be the most realistic
depiction of driving yet implemented of everyday cars. Not just the
driving physics, but the accidents and collisions are frighteningly
realistic as well.

The game is simulated in a living and breathing city environment.
Every single car in the game world can be stolen and driven. I could
(and have) played for hours on end, just stealing various vehicles and
playing with them, ignoring the actual game.

Graphics
========

Nothing short of incredible. The size of the three [connected] game
worlds is massive, and yet the attention to detail is there too. The
entire city lives in a simulated 24-hour environment (where a minute
passes for every real-world second). Lighting and weather is dynamic,
particle effects and animation - including dynamic vehicle damage - is
first rate. Out of car animation (characters walking and so on) is
also quite good. Movie-scenes are done with the game engine and work
very nicely.

Occasionally the framerate dips a bit, but nothing that affects car
control, so it's a fair trade off against everything that's going on.

Sound
=====

Exceptional. Great vehicle/collision/fighting/character sounds, and
the most indepth (and hilariously funny) multi-channel radio
simulation I've heard in a video game. Very funny and sometimes
shocking, the dialogue is also great.

Gameplay
========

Well I just don't know where to start. The missions I suppose, since
they are the core of the gameplay.

The missions are very fun and original. In one you have to hit someone
who's eating in a restaurant. You steal there car, take it somewhere
to get it armed with a bomb, and return it (being careful not to
damage it or park it out of place). Then the poor sucker comes out and
it blows up spectacularly.

What really impresses me about the missions is how effective simple
logical thinking is. I had to disable a car in one, but couldn't do it
in my taxi cab - so I stole a bus and then it was no problem. If the
mission is too hard you are usually doing something wrong. In another
I had to shoot someone on foot, and he kept getting away. So next time
I stole his car and wrecked it before going after him - and sure
enough he couldn't get away!

The missions are the core gameplay, but only one small part of it. If
you want to make some money ou can steal a cab and go delivering
passengers, ala Crazy Taxi. Or you can steal a fire engine and make
money putting out fires. Or rescue people in the ambulance. Or even
take a cop car and chase crooks.

There's a hundred ways to make money or advance your cause. You can be
a simple mugger, taking people's money. You can steal a mafia car, run
over the gun-wielding former owner, and then take his gun. You can
have sex with ***s, then kill them and take their money back (this
game not only redefines "deep gameplay" - it's positively *sinful*).

You can make money doing special jumps and stunts, and probably fifty
other ways I haven't heard about.

AI
==

The AI is ground-breaking, reflecting it's 4th-generation heritage (by
the makers of Midtown Madness, Midnight Club Racing, etc.). The police
driving-AI is superb - tough but without seeming to cheat, they are
constrained by the same physics as you are (and yet police chases feel
spectacularly dangerous, as they would in real life). There are also
side-missions featuring full races with great AI.

But the AI goes far beyond driving, the whole city lives and breaths.
The time-of-day isn't just graphical, but is reflected in
pedestrian/traffic density, type, and behaviour. The fireman respond
to fires, the ambulances to injury (I heard one story of setting a
***on fire, waiting for the firetruck and setting it's ownwer on
fire, then waiting for the cops and running them over with the
firetruck!).

You can even use the city infrastructure - trevel by car or foot, or
by the l-train, or boat or plane in some cicumstances.

Summary
=======

There are probably twenty more really cool things I just can't
remember about right now, and a hundred I haven't seen yet. (Oh yeah,
one more I just remembered - take the *** you find by the hospital
and get Max Payne style bullet-time where everything slows down).

This game is not only worth buying, it makes the PS2 worth buying. I
know a guy who spent five hundred bucks this weekend getting a PS2
just so he could play GTA3 - and he's thrilled with his decision. You
don't have to be that drastic, because it is coming to the PC next
year (if you can wait that long!). But with other triple-AAA titles
now hitting the stores or soon to - MGS2, Devil May Cry, Ico, GT3 -
the time is ripe for any serious game to get a PS2.

If you have a PS2, don't even hesitate - go buy this game right now
(if you can find a copy - it's selling like hotcakes of course). If
you don't, find a friend who does and play it there.

Joe McGinn
_____________________
Radical Entertainment

Destro

GTA3 - the best driving game of all time?

by Destro » Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:36:49

And you are getting all this great driving feel with a gamepad?
Ermmm..I'll pass.

>I've been playing driving games since the days of Pit Stop on the
>Commodore-64. Hell, before that even - remember the "Night Driver"
>arcade game and the cartridge version you could buy for the Vic-20?
>I've been a big fan of great driving games ever since, including GPL.

>Caveat: I am currently working on arcade driving games (The Simpsons
>Road Rage) for a living.

>Grand Theft Auto 3 (GTA3, just released on the PS2) may well be the
>greatest driving game of all time.

>This game is so absolutely masive - much greater in scope than
>anything that's been attempted before - that it's hard to even know
>where to begin. So maybe I'll just break it down into categories and
>start from there.

>Physics
>=======

>The driving experienced is incredible. Everything from family sedans
>to humvees to vipers and ferraris to buses and 18-wheeler trucks are
>modedeled, and everything in between. This may be the most realistic
>depiction of driving yet implemented of everyday cars. Not just the
>driving physics, but the accidents and collisions are frighteningly
>realistic as well.

>The game is simulated in a living and breathing city environment.
>Every single car in the game world can be stolen and driven. I could
>(and have) played for hours on end, just stealing various vehicles and
>playing with them, ignoring the actual game.

>Graphics
>========

>Nothing short of incredible. The size of the three [connected] game
>worlds is massive, and yet the attention to detail is there too. The
>entire city lives in a simulated 24-hour environment (where a minute
>passes for every real-world second). Lighting and weather is dynamic,
>particle effects and animation - including dynamic vehicle damage - is
>first rate. Out of car animation (characters walking and so on) is
>also quite good. Movie-scenes are done with the game engine and work
>very nicely.

>Occasionally the framerate dips a bit, but nothing that affects car
>control, so it's a fair trade off against everything that's going on.

>Sound
>=====

>Exceptional. Great vehicle/collision/fighting/character sounds, and
>the most indepth (and hilariously funny) multi-channel radio
>simulation I've heard in a video game. Very funny and sometimes
>shocking, the dialogue is also great.

>Gameplay
>========

>Well I just don't know where to start. The missions I suppose, since
>they are the core of the gameplay.

>The missions are very fun and original. In one you have to hit someone
>who's eating in a restaurant. You steal there car, take it somewhere
>to get it armed with a bomb, and return it (being careful not to
>damage it or park it out of place). Then the poor sucker comes out and
>it blows up spectacularly.

>What really impresses me about the missions is how effective simple
>logical thinking is. I had to disable a car in one, but couldn't do it
>in my taxi cab - so I stole a bus and then it was no problem. If the
>mission is too hard you are usually doing something wrong. In another
>I had to shoot someone on foot, and he kept getting away. So next time
>I stole his car and wrecked it before going after him - and sure
>enough he couldn't get away!

>The missions are the core gameplay, but only one small part of it. If
>you want to make some money ou can steal a cab and go delivering
>passengers, ala Crazy Taxi. Or you can steal a fire engine and make
>money putting out fires. Or rescue people in the ambulance. Or even
>take a cop car and chase crooks.

>There's a hundred ways to make money or advance your cause. You can be
>a simple mugger, taking people's money. You can steal a mafia car, run
>over the gun-wielding former owner, and then take his gun. You can
>have sex with ***s, then kill them and take their money back (this
>game not only redefines "deep gameplay" - it's positively *sinful*).

>You can make money doing special jumps and stunts, and probably fifty
>other ways I haven't heard about.

>AI
>==

>The AI is ground-breaking, reflecting it's 4th-generation heritage (by
>the makers of Midtown Madness, Midnight Club Racing, etc.). The police
>driving-AI is superb - tough but without seeming to cheat, they are
>constrained by the same physics as you are (and yet police chases feel
>spectacularly dangerous, as they would in real life). There are also
>side-missions featuring full races with great AI.

>But the AI goes far beyond driving, the whole city lives and breaths.
>The time-of-day isn't just graphical, but is reflected in
>pedestrian/traffic density, type, and behaviour. The fireman respond
>to fires, the ambulances to injury (I heard one story of setting a
>***on fire, waiting for the firetruck and setting it's ownwer on
>fire, then waiting for the cops and running them over with the
>firetruck!).

>You can even use the city infrastructure - trevel by car or foot, or
>by the l-train, or boat or plane in some cicumstances.

>Summary
>=======

>There are probably twenty more really cool things I just can't
>remember about right now, and a hundred I haven't seen yet. (Oh yeah,
>one more I just remembered - take the *** you find by the hospital
>and get Max Payne style bullet-time where everything slows down).

>This game is not only worth buying, it makes the PS2 worth buying. I
>know a guy who spent five hundred bucks this weekend getting a PS2
>just so he could play GTA3 - and he's thrilled with his decision. You
>don't have to be that drastic, because it is coming to the PC next
>year (if you can wait that long!). But with other triple-AAA titles
>now hitting the stores or soon to - MGS2, Devil May Cry, Ico, GT3 -
>the time is ripe for any serious game to get a PS2.

>If you have a PS2, don't even hesitate - go buy this game right now
>(if you can find a copy - it's selling like hotcakes of course). If
>you don't, find a friend who does and play it there.

>Joe McGinn
>_____________________
>Radical Entertainment

Rod Princ

GTA3 - the best driving game of all time?

by Rod Princ » Tue, 30 Oct 2001 13:22:25



Unusure if this will have a multiplayer aspect on the PC, if it does
I would be tempted to buy it for the PC as well, but looking over
the post headers I have retrieved over the last 2 days, the two
factors that weigh heavily in getting it for the PS2 over the PC are
perceived (lack of) performance issues and no driver issues.

Cheers,
Rod.

Joe Marque

GTA3 - the best driving game of all time?

by Joe Marque » Tue, 30 Oct 2001 13:37:43

I couldn't find where he said he's playing with a gamepad.  How do you know
he's not using a wheel?  Console wheel support is surprisingly robust on the
PS2.  GT3, F1 2001 and Nascar Thunder all support the Logitech Force GP with
very good force feedback.

--
Joe Marques


> And you are getting all this great driving feel with a gamepad?
> Ermmm..I'll pass.


> >I've been playing driving games since the days of Pit Stop on the
> >Commodore-64. Hell, before that even - remember the "Night Driver"
> >arcade game and the cartridge version you could buy for the Vic-20?
> >I've been a big fan of great driving games ever since, including GPL.

> >Caveat: I am currently working on arcade driving games (The Simpsons
> >Road Rage) for a living.

> >Grand Theft Auto 3 (GTA3, just released on the PS2) may well be the
> >greatest driving game of all time.

> >This game is so absolutely masive - much greater in scope than
> >anything that's been attempted before - that it's hard to even know
> >where to begin. So maybe I'll just break it down into categories and
> >start from there.

> >Physics
> >=======

> >The driving experienced is incredible. Everything from family sedans
> >to humvees to vipers and ferraris to buses and 18-wheeler trucks are
> >modedeled, and everything in between. This may be the most realistic
> >depiction of driving yet implemented of everyday cars. Not just the
> >driving physics, but the accidents and collisions are frighteningly
> >realistic as well.

> >The game is simulated in a living and breathing city environment.
> >Every single car in the game world can be stolen and driven. I could
> >(and have) played for hours on end, just stealing various vehicles and
> >playing with them, ignoring the actual game.

> >Graphics
> >========

> >Nothing short of incredible. The size of the three [connected] game
> >worlds is massive, and yet the attention to detail is there too. The
> >entire city lives in a simulated 24-hour environment (where a minute
> >passes for every real-world second). Lighting and weather is dynamic,
> >particle effects and animation - including dynamic vehicle damage - is
> >first rate. Out of car animation (characters walking and so on) is
> >also quite good. Movie-scenes are done with the game engine and work
> >very nicely.

> >Occasionally the framerate dips a bit, but nothing that affects car
> >control, so it's a fair trade off against everything that's going on.

> >Sound
> >=====

> >Exceptional. Great vehicle/collision/fighting/character sounds, and
> >the most indepth (and hilariously funny) multi-channel radio
> >simulation I've heard in a video game. Very funny and sometimes
> >shocking, the dialogue is also great.

> >Gameplay
> >========

> >Well I just don't know where to start. The missions I suppose, since
> >they are the core of the gameplay.

> >The missions are very fun and original. In one you have to hit someone
> >who's eating in a restaurant. You steal there car, take it somewhere
> >to get it armed with a bomb, and return it (being careful not to
> >damage it or park it out of place). Then the poor sucker comes out and
> >it blows up spectacularly.

> >What really impresses me about the missions is how effective simple
> >logical thinking is. I had to disable a car in one, but couldn't do it
> >in my taxi cab - so I stole a bus and then it was no problem. If the
> >mission is too hard you are usually doing something wrong. In another
> >I had to shoot someone on foot, and he kept getting away. So next time
> >I stole his car and wrecked it before going after him - and sure
> >enough he couldn't get away!

> >The missions are the core gameplay, but only one small part of it. If
> >you want to make some money ou can steal a cab and go delivering
> >passengers, ala Crazy Taxi. Or you can steal a fire engine and make
> >money putting out fires. Or rescue people in the ambulance. Or even
> >take a cop car and chase crooks.

> >There's a hundred ways to make money or advance your cause. You can be
> >a simple mugger, taking people's money. You can steal a mafia car, run
> >over the gun-wielding former owner, and then take his gun. You can
> >have sex with ***s, then kill them and take their money back (this
> >game not only redefines "deep gameplay" - it's positively *sinful*).

> >You can make money doing special jumps and stunts, and probably fifty
> >other ways I haven't heard about.

> >AI
> >==

> >The AI is ground-breaking, reflecting it's 4th-generation heritage (by
> >the makers of Midtown Madness, Midnight Club Racing, etc.). The police
> >driving-AI is superb - tough but without seeming to cheat, they are
> >constrained by the same physics as you are (and yet police chases feel
> >spectacularly dangerous, as they would in real life). There are also
> >side-missions featuring full races with great AI.

> >But the AI goes far beyond driving, the whole city lives and breaths.
> >The time-of-day isn't just graphical, but is reflected in
> >pedestrian/traffic density, type, and behaviour. The fireman respond
> >to fires, the ambulances to injury (I heard one story of setting a
> >***on fire, waiting for the firetruck and setting it's ownwer on
> >fire, then waiting for the cops and running them over with the
> >firetruck!).

> >You can even use the city infrastructure - trevel by car or foot, or
> >by the l-train, or boat or plane in some cicumstances.

> >Summary
> >=======

> >There are probably twenty more really cool things I just can't
> >remember about right now, and a hundred I haven't seen yet. (Oh yeah,
> >one more I just remembered - take the *** you find by the hospital
> >and get Max Payne style bullet-time where everything slows down).

> >This game is not only worth buying, it makes the PS2 worth buying. I
> >know a guy who spent five hundred bucks this weekend getting a PS2
> >just so he could play GTA3 - and he's thrilled with his decision. You
> >don't have to be that drastic, because it is coming to the PC next
> >year (if you can wait that long!). But with other triple-AAA titles
> >now hitting the stores or soon to - MGS2, Devil May Cry, Ico, GT3 -
> >the time is ripe for any serious game to get a PS2.

> >If you have a PS2, don't even hesitate - go buy this game right now
> >(if you can find a copy - it's selling like hotcakes of course). If
> >you don't, find a friend who does and play it there.

> >Joe McGinn
> >_____________________
> >Radical Entertainment

istof

GTA3 - the best driving game of all time?

by istof » Tue, 30 Oct 2001 21:37:26

mmm.  almost as positive as the f12001 reviews :)

stealing cars?  
having sex with ***s?

must be better than GPL.  after almost 4 years Papy hasn't released
any patches that add those features.

Regards all,
istoff

"Its easy to get lost in thought
if you don't go there often"    - Me, 1993

Destro

GTA3 - the best driving game of all time?

by Destro » Tue, 30 Oct 2001 22:37:16


>I couldn't find where he said he's playing with a gamepad.  How do you know
>he's not using a wheel?  Console wheel support is surprisingly robust on the
>PS2.  GT3, F1 2001 and Nascar Thunder all support the Logitech Force GP with
>very good force feedback.

Well that could be different then.  Didn't know consoles are as good as
computers now in the controller area. I assumed he was playing with a
gamepad with those tiny little joysticks in them.
Aaro

GTA3 - the best driving game of all time?

by Aaro » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 00:07:13

Joe is telling the truth.  I got GTA3 last week and it is simply one of the
best games ever made.  Incredible realism, and amazing amount of things to
do.


Joe Marque

GTA3 - the best driving game of all time?

by Joe Marque » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 00:18:32

The controller situation with consoles is a bit frustrating at the moment.
The actual feel of control over the vehicle is more direct and immediate
than a PC (probably attributable to consistently high fps and dedicated
interface designed mainly for a controller vs. a generic usb/gameport).
However, the user customization is lacking so I'm stuck with good to very
good steering control that could be awesome if I could just tweak it to suit
needs.  It's getting there.

--
Joe Marques



> >I couldn't find where he said he's playing with a gamepad.  How do you
know
> >he's not using a wheel?  Console wheel support is surprisingly robust on
the
> >PS2.  GT3, F1 2001 and Nascar Thunder all support the Logitech Force GP
with
> >very good force feedback.

> Well that could be different then.  Didn't know consoles are as good as
> computers now in the controller area. I assumed he was playing with a
> gamepad with those tiny little joysticks in them.

Gunnar Horrigm

GTA3 - the best driving game of all time?

by Gunnar Horrigm » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 02:44:20


more like a consistently low framerate, dude.

--
Gunnar
    #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
                                     FJ?SE!

Aaro

GTA3 - the best driving game of all time?

by Aaro » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 03:34:19

If you have a PS2, you should get it now.  Trust me.  =)

Aaron
--
GTA3 stats: Day 229, 35% complete. Rank: Associate-(1476)
809 miles driven, 156 miles run, 954 cars exploded, 3451 people wasted
Also playing: Nothing

Joe Marque

GTA3 - the best driving game of all time?

by Joe Marque » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:33:43

No, consoles generally have more consistentl framerates (and usually pretty
damn high fps) given the standard hardware config.  I've never had a console
game drop into the 15-20 fps range.  GT3 60+.  F1 2001 always 30+ (not the
highest but still consistent which is equally if not more important).

The inconsistent fps on PC's cause driver error since one turn may be at 40
fps (where control is smooth and direct) while another turn may drop to 20
fps (where control is out of sync given the choppy visuals which leads to
overcorrection or other driver error).  I just upgraded my PC and my
laptimes are immediately better on F1 2001 since my lowest fps is now 40
instead of 20.

--
Joe Marques



> > The controller situation with consoles is a bit frustrating at the
moment.
> > The actual feel of control over the vehicle is more direct and immediate
> > than a PC (probably attributable to consistently high fps and

> more like a consistently low framerate, dude.

> --
> Gunnar
>     #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
>                                      FJ?SE!

Gunnar Horrigm

GTA3 - the best driving game of all time?

by Gunnar Horrigm » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:16:40


> No, consoles generally have more consistentl framerates (and usually pretty
> damn high fps) given the standard hardware config.  I've never had a console
> game drop into the 15-20 fps range.  GT3 60+.  F1 2001 always 30+ (not the
> highest but still consistent which is equally if not more
> important).

whatever.  30 FPS equals unplayable in my world.

--
Gunnar
    #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
                                     FJ?SE!

Stephen Ferguso

GTA3 - the best driving game of all time?

by Stephen Ferguso » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 19:39:40



> > No, consoles generally have more consistentl framerates (and usually
pretty
> > damn high fps) given the standard hardware config.  I've never had a
console
> > game drop into the 15-20 fps range.  GT3 60+.  F1 2001 always 30+ (not
the
> > highest but still consistent which is equally if not more
> > important).

> whatever.  30 FPS equals unplayable in my world.

Damn, and all this time I thought I was having fun with the sims on my
ever-struggling notebook... :-)

Stephen

Gregor Vebl

GTA3 - the best driving game of all time?

by Gregor Vebl » Wed, 31 Oct 2001 19:43:12

What is unplayable in his world may not be unplayable in your book.

(note-book, geddit? I know, bad pun, let me have my fun, though ;) )

-Gregor


> > whatever.  30 FPS equals unplayable in my world.

> Damn, and all this time I thought I was having fun with the sims on my
> ever-struggling notebook... :-)

> Stephen


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