rec.autos.simulators

Competitive against AI?

Dale Chave

Competitive against AI?

by Dale Chave » Fri, 26 Sep 1997 04:00:00

All,

I've owned N2 for about 3 months now and I absoutely love it.  I would
like to pursue true online racing at some point but at the rate I'm
progressing, it's probably not gonna happen anytime real soon.  I don't
know how many hours the typical N2 guy spends each week, but evidently
I'm not spending enough time (I currently only race about 5
hours/week).  I usually run about 40 practice laps before a race and
then run races at 50% length.

98% is as high as I can raise the AI strength level and still remain
somewhat competitive against the cars.  At 99%, I get seriously blown
away during the race and it's really not any fun.  I've downloaded some
of the setups from the Web and they've helped out, but at 99% I'm not
even a factor.  So...how many hours do you guys spend racing/practicing
in order to compete at 100% (or higher)?  I can't see even contemplating
online racing until I get much better.

Any suggestions on how to improve are appreciated!

Thanks,
Dale

Michael E. Carve

Competitive against AI?

by Michael E. Carve » Fri, 26 Sep 1997 04:00:00


% All,

% I've owned N2 for about 3 months now and I absoutely love it.  I would
% like to pursue true online racing at some point but at the rate I'm
% progressing, it's probably not gonna happen anytime real soon.  I don't
% know how many hours the typical N2 guy spends each week, but evidently
% I'm not spending enough time (I currently only race about 5
% hours/week).  I usually run about 40 practice laps before a race and
% then run races at 50% length.

% 98% is as high as I can raise the AI strength level and still remain
% somewhat competitive against the cars.  At 99%, I get seriously blown
% away during the race and it's really not any fun.  I've downloaded some
% of the setups from the Web and they've helped out, but at 99% I'm not
% even a factor.  So...how many hours do you guys spend racing/practicing
% in order to compete at 100% (or higher)?  I can't see even contemplating
% online racing until I get much better.

% Any suggestions on how to improve are appreciated!

There are many variables in this equation.  First couple deal with
"system" performance.  Do what you must to get a frame rate that is
smooth and consistant.  I find that 20 frames per second is a "bare
minimum" for racing sims.  However, even this rate is a handicap.  If
you don't have a Rendition video card turn off graphic features until
you achieve a good solid frame rate.  The more frames per second the
better your responses will be the competion and your driving.  The next
performance issue is input.  If you are not using a wheel/pedal
combination, get one.  This not only translates to a "more" virtual
experience, it also improves ones ability to control the car.  Depending
on the track this can be a major improvement in one's driving abilities.

The next step is "human" peformance.  This will come in the garage and
practice times on the track.  One really needs to understand the science
of setting up a car for one's own driving style.  While many of the
setups found on the net are good for starting points, they all are
different and will work differently with different driving styles.
There are some excellent "setup" tips on the net (I'll let others point
out where they lurk).  Learn what different changes mean to your driving
style.  Only change one thing at a time and then practice on the track.
Sometimes a change may not translate to an immediate improvement.  Yet
if one spends some time adapting their driving style to the car's new
physics, it "may" actually improve performance.  When setting up a car,
I find it best to start with a fairly neutral or even a slightly tight
setup for starters.  This will give one a better sense of the track and
the the "pefect" lines.  Once you begin to achieve constant lap times,
it's time to go to the garage and start tweaking the car.  I usually
find the first thing to look at is tire temps, make sure the temps are
even across the tire (camber and tire pressure).  Next I look at
changing the front/rear weight balance.  This setting highly affects the
cars overall speed in the turns.  I like to start loosening up the car,
but still keeping it towards neutral.  Go out to the track and see if
you can improve your lap times.  Give yourself some time to get used to
the new feel of the car.  Once you are comfortable with the performance
in the turns, start directing your setup attention to the turns
entrance.  Work until you get a this down, then work on the exit of the
turns.  Then it's time to go back to the top and look at tire temps,
front/rear weight, turn entrance and turn exits.

When you have a good comfortable setup it's time to start learning how
to drive faster.  Practice, Practice, Practice.  When working ovals
start working on the entrance to turn 1.  Find the perfect approach that
will get you to the apex in good control.  Don't even think about
concentrating on anything else until you have entrance down.  Next step
is to start concentrating on the apex and the exit of the turn.  Take
the tracks one step at a time and keep working on improving just one
aspect of the track at a time.

Once you make it around the track, you will usually find it's time to go
back to the garage and start tweaking some more.  This process may take
quite some time for the first few tracks.  But as you absorb the setup
and learning process, future tracks will become easier and quicker (oh,
there will always be a track or two that will always be a challenge for
you though).  This process may be slow going, but like I said the
lessons you learn at the first few tracks will make it a faster process
as you progress.

One last tip.  Drive ahead of yourself.  As you are heading down the
front straight, vision your approach to the first turn.  As you reach
the first turn, vision your approach through the apex. As you reach the
apex, vision your exit out of turn 2.  If you can learn to drive this
way lap after lap, you will find your lap times getting smaller and
smaller.  The other advatange to driving ahead is that you will be able
to compensate and plan the attacks on the other drivers on the course
when you get down to real racing.

In case I forgot, practice, practice, practice...

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Rick

Competitive against AI?

by Rick » Fri, 26 Sep 1997 04:00:00


says...

This is going to sound too short and sweet to be truly helpful, but I
hope you can just trust that the magic formula you're looking for is in
these five words:

   To go faster, slow down.

Newcomers to NASCAR2 invariably start out trying to go too fast and that
just doesn't work against the top 25% of the field (nor, of course, will
it work against live online drivers).  If your tires are doing anything
beyond just barely starting to screetch in the corners, you're going too
fast.  Believe it or not, you can beat the AI at 100% on every track with
the default ACE setups, you just have to learn control instead of speed.  
There's an extremely fine line between having and not having control in
the corners.  Mastering this sensitive threshold is the secret to
successful racing.  To newcomers, that always means slowing down.  
Usually, it means slowing down a LOT.

One of the most effective exercises you can practice that teaches control
is to go to a track in Practice mode and do nothing but drive around and
around with your left wheels hugging the inside line for the entire time
you're on the track.  When you're doing this, going fast is NOT as
important as keeping your tires glued to the inside line.  Obviously, you
should progressively try to go faster and faster, but NEVER NEVER
NEVER let your tires leave the inside yellow line.  You're learning to
keep your tires on the yellow line FIRST, and you're learning to go
faster SECOND.  Remember that priority.

The first time you do this, you'll be shocked at how much you have to
slow down prior to (and while) entering a turn in order to keep your left
tires on the inside yellow line.  DO NOT LET YOUR TIRES SCREAM.  It will
probably feel like you're going WAY to slow compared to how you drive
now, but that's the whole point: you're probably driving too fast right
now and that's why you're not improving.  If you're relatively new to
NASCAR and you can't beat the AI at 98%, it's almost guaranteed that the
reason is because you're going too fast.

Slow down before and while entering the turn, "feather" your throttle
through the turn, and find the "sweet spot" near the middle to end of the
turn where you can get back on the gas coming out of the turn.  Every
turn is just a little different and you have to learn each one that you
intend to master.  Timing is absolutely critical; if you miss the sweet
spot, don't make it worse by trying to make something good out of a bad
entry.  Admit to yourself that you screwed up and the best you can do
is get back on your line and learn from whatever mistake caused you
to deviate from it.  Back off, get your car back under complete control,
and then keep going.  New drivers consistently try too hard to turn a bad
situation into a lucky pass.  Just forget it, you might get lucky once or
twice in a whole race but much more often than not you're going to end up
in a wall, into another car, or at the very least being passed by four or
five cars instead of just one or two.  In NASCAR, patience is not a
virtue -- it's THE virtue.  When you screw-up an entry to a turn, all you
can do is recover and try to be a little smoother (read: slower) the next
time around.  If you can't seem to do that, then call your pit crew and
tell them to get ready because you're about to have crash after crash
after crash.

Watch your speedometer closely and learn the maximum safe entry speed for
all of the turns on the track you're practicing (Atlanta is an excellent
track to start with).  After you can consistently drive around the track
as fast as possible while keeping your wheels down by the apron lap after
lap (I'm talking a few hours of practice per track here), then slowly
start moving away from the inside yellow line and start looking for the
real racing line that you would use during a race.  DO NOT do this after
driving the yellow line for only 10-15 minutes.  Drive the yellow
line for at least TWO full hours, more if possible.  None of the time
spent down on the yellow line will be wasted.  

After you start moving up onto the rest of the track, it's absolutely
imperative that you don't forget what you learned while you were driving
around the yellow line -- don't forget how it felt when you could tell
the car was almost starting to slip, but you were still keeping your left
tires on the yellow line and your tires were still just barely (I mean
BARELY) starting to whine.  Don't forget how it felt when you were
driving "the line" and you could just tell that you were far enough
through a turn to give it the gas again.  Don't forget how it felt when
you got on the gas too early and you had to back off to keep your tires
on the line or to prevent them from screaming.  You're doing the same
thing now, you're simply doing it a little faster on a new, more
forgiving line that you can't necessarily see.  Everything else remains
the same, and everything you learned on the line still applies.

To summarize, it's not really about how MUCH you practice.  It's about
how EFFECTIVELY you practice.  Obviously, the more you practice
effectively, the better you'll get, but if you're not practicing
correctly, then you can drive for hundreds and hundreds of hours and
never get over the 98% AI threshold.  If you do what I've described above
and if you literally take as much time learning the corners as I've
prescribed, you'll be beating 100% AI cars at Atlanta by the end of your
first four- or five-hour practice session, guaranteed (or your money back
<g>).  The thing that will amaze you the most is you'll discover what I
said at the beginning of this message is indeed true:  To go faster, slow
down.  

When you hit a turn "just right" and pass that ol' number one car to take
the checkered flag, you'll be amazed at how smoothly and slowly you were
driving when it happened, which is what made the pass possible in the
first place.

Good luck,
Rick

JH

Competitive against AI?

by JH » Fri, 26 Sep 1997 04:00:00


*snip*
> 98% is as high as I can raise the AI strength level and still remain
> somewhat competitive against the cars.  At 99%, I get seriously blown
> away during the race and it's really not any fun.  I've downloaded
*snip*
> in order to compete at 100% (or higher)?  I can't see even  
> contemplating online racing until I get much better.

> Any suggestions on how to improve are appreciated!

> Thanks,
> Dale

It AI strength all depends on the track really, you should be able to
beat the computer at 100% at Talladega ,C***te and Bristol. But will
probably fall behind the computer at Atlanta, Sears Point, The Glen.
If I can't run with the computer I try to beat it on pit strategy.
Even if you are not competative in the race, stick to it, the more laps
you get in on a track the better.
I have won at every track at 100% using only the default ACE setup.
These were 50% to 75% length races, so pit strategy comes into play.
Also a lot of the times on the net are one lap wonder speeds. Although
the people setting these speeds are amazing. The rest of us will just
be *stellar*.
Good Luck
Remember....PRACTICE....PRACTICE....PRACTICE.
-Jody-
ccorpor

Competitive against AI?

by ccorpor » Fri, 26 Sep 1997 04:00:00


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> Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators
> Subject: Competitive against AI?
> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 07:50:23 -0600
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> All,

> I've owned N2 for about 3 months now and I absoutely love it.  I would
> like to pursue true online racing at some point but at the rate I'm
> progressing, it's probably not gonna happen anytime real soon.  I don't
> know how many hours the typical N2 guy spends each week, but evidently
> I'm not spending enough time (I currently only race about 5
> hours/week).  I usually run about 40 practice laps before a race and
> then run races at 50% length.

> 98% is as high as I can raise the AI strength level and still remain
> somewhat competitive against the cars.  At 99%, I get seriously blown
> away during the race and it's really not any fun.  I've downloaded some
> of the setups from the Web and they've helped out, but at 99% I'm not
> even a factor.  So...how many hours do you guys spend racing/practicing
> in order to compete at 100% (or higher)?  I can't see even contemplating
> online racing until I get much better.

> Any suggestions on how to improve are appreciated!

> Thanks,
> Dale

R:

Honestly IMO!! There's a point where you simply hit the wall. There are just
people who can see and drive the line better no matter what.

When NRO goes online check out the arcade mode races. There you will find a
much evener race between greats and not so greats as the line isn't as small
to run a wonderful lap. In this mode you will be competitve if you can avoid
hitting others...

Q.B.M.

BRYNICEG

Competitive against AI?

by BRYNICEG » Fri, 26 Sep 1997 04:00:00

this might go without saying for most but just in case, learn to drive
without braking help on.

John Loga

Competitive against AI?

by John Loga » Fri, 26 Sep 1997 04:00:00


> All,

> I've owned N2 for about 3 months now and I absoutely love it.  I would
> like to pursue true online racing at some point but at the rate I'm
> progressing, it's probably not gonna happen anytime real soon.  I don't
> know how many hours the typical N2 guy spends each week, but evidently
> I'm not spending enough time (I currently only race about 5
> hours/week).  I usually run about 40 practice laps before a race and
> then run races at 50% length.

> 98% is as high as I can raise the AI strength level and still remain
> somewhat competitive against the cars.  At 99%, I get seriously blown
> away during the race and it's really not any fun.  I've downloaded some
> of the setups from the Web and they've helped out, but at 99% I'm not
> even a factor.  So...how many hours do you guys spend racing/practicing
> in order to compete at 100% (or higher)?  I can't see even contemplating
> online racing until I get much better.

> Any suggestions on how to improve are appreciated!

> Thanks,
> Dale

I race about 10 hours Mon-Fri and about 5 more hours on the weekend and
can currently blow away the field at Talladega at 100% and am usually up
front all day at Atlanta, C***te, Bristol and Darlington(I hate this
track though).

Setups can make a huge difference but so does just taking time to learn
the track.  

Another important factor is just yourself, do you naturally drive good
at a track or are you like me on Road Courses, struggling to make every
turn??

--
PolePosition#3- IVGA #4882

Visit my pages:
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

"If you don't believe, you don't belong." -- Alan Kulwicki's Credo

Curtis J. Mat

Competitive against AI?

by Curtis J. Mat » Sat, 27 Sep 1997 04:00:00

I've been racing on N1 and N2 and found the line through the corners and
consistency is what will make you faster.  It is better to have five
consistent 45 second laps than to have four 44.9 seconds laps and one 46
second lap.  Also, sometimes the Ace setup doesn't fit your driving style.
For example, I drive a Monte Carlo and the Ace setup at Dover is so loose I
can't even do 4 laps without spinning out, but my friend drives a Ford and
says the Ace setup is perfect.  Also, the Ace setup at Atlanta only makes
me 15th best out of 39 cars.  You need to set the car up so it is
comfortable for your driving style.  Also, learn the track first and then
try to work on a setup.  I see many posts asking for setups when they
really don't know the fastest lines around the track.  There are numerous
pages on the internet on how to set up a car.

Curtis



Michael E. Carve

Competitive against AI?

by Michael E. Carve » Sat, 27 Sep 1997 04:00:00



% says...

% > Any suggestions on how to improve are appreciated!

% This is going to sound too short and sweet to be truly helpful, but I
% hope you can just trust that the magic formula you're looking for is in
% these five words:

%    To go faster, slow down.

<excellent lesson snipped>

Just a note to say that for first timers, this is an excellent approach!
Even if you aren't a first timer, you may find that you can find
yourself the edge you need by giving this approach a try.

Thanks for the excellent post!
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

John Broed

Competitive against AI?

by John Broed » Sat, 27 Sep 1997 04:00:00

Try the Beginners Guide to NASCAR2 at
www.mindspring.com/~jmbroeder/n2intro.htm


>All,

>I've owned N2 for about 3 months now and I absoutely love it.  I would
>like to pursue true online racing at some point but at the rate I'm
>progressing, it's probably not gonna happen anytime real soon.  I don't
>know how many hours the typical N2 guy spends each week, but evidently
>I'm not spending enough time (I currently only race about 5
>hours/week).  I usually run about 40 practice laps before a race and
>then run races at 50% length.

>98% is as high as I can raise the AI strength level and still remain
>somewhat competitive against the cars.  At 99%, I get seriously blown
>away during the race and it's really not any fun.  I've downloaded some
>of the setups from the Web and they've helped out, but at 99% I'm not
>even a factor.  So...how many hours do you guys spend racing/practicing
>in order to compete at 100% (or higher)?  I can't see even contemplating
>online racing until I get much better.

>Any suggestions on how to improve are appreciated!

>Thanks,
>Dale

Tom J. Ma

Competitive against AI?

by Tom J. Ma » Sat, 27 Sep 1997 04:00:00

Very true, start out with a basic setup and try to use differnet lines to
fit the setup



>I've been racing on N1 and N2 and found the line through the corners and
>consistency is what will make you faster.  It is better to have five
>consistent 45 second laps than to have four 44.9 seconds laps and one 46
>second lap.  Also, sometimes the Ace setup doesn't fit your driving style.
>For example, I drive a Monte Carlo and the Ace setup at Dover is so loose I
>can't even do 4 laps without spinning out, but my friend drives a Ford and
>says the Ace setup is perfect.  Also, the Ace setup at Atlanta only makes
>me 15th best out of 39 cars.  You need to set the car up so it is
>comfortable for your driving style.  Also, learn the track first and then
>try to work on a setup.  I see many posts asking for setups when they
>really don't know the fastest lines around the track.  There are numerous
>pages on the internet on how to set up a car.

>Curtis



>> Any suggestions on how to improve are appreciated!

Dale Chave

Competitive against AI?

by Dale Chave » Sat, 27 Sep 1997 04:00:00


Mike, thanks for the detailed response.  Your input (as was the email I
received) is appreciated.  Have to go
practice...practice...practice...practice...practice...

Dale Chave

Competitive against AI?

by Dale Chave » Sun, 28 Sep 1997 04:00:00

Thanks to everyone that's replied to my question!  Rick's suggestion to
"slow down" sounds like the right approach to getting better.

Regards,
Dale

BSPN

Competitive against AI?

by BSPN » Sun, 28 Sep 1997 04:00:00

Rick, this was one of the most well explained renditions (no pun intended
<G>) of this old song I've ever heard! This is very good advice indeed, and
Dale would be smart to follow it. I'm a little bit further down the road than
Dale and I'm approaching the point where the AI isn't going to be enough
challenge soon (below 102% or so), but you have opened my eyes a bit too, and
I'm going to follow your program and see if it can speed me up a
little....Especially your emphasis of not letting the wheels screetch...I do
that a little more than you suggest, so I have to see if I can back out a
little more on entry....It's an old saw. "slow down to go faster" but it's
true...you need to have faith! Thanks, for a thorough and thought provoking
reply to Dale's question.....gotta go practice!

Lou B.
Rustbucket Racing
Wreckless Racing



> says...

> > Any suggestions on how to improve are appreciated!

> This is going to sound too short and sweet to be truly helpful, but I
> hope you can just trust that the magic formula you're looking for is in
> these five words:

>    To go faster, slow down.

> Newcomers to NASCAR2 invariably start out trying to go too fast and that
> just doesn't work against the top 25% of the field (nor, of course, will
> it work against live online drivers).  If your tires are doing anything
> beyond just barely starting to screetch in the corners, you're going too
> fast.  Believe it or not, you can beat the AI at 100% on every track with
> the default ACE setups, you just have to learn control instead of speed.
> There's an extremely fine line between having and not having control in
> the corners.  Mastering this sensitive threshold is the secret to
> successful racing.  To newcomers, that always means slowing down.
> Usually, it means slowing down a LOT.

> One of the most effective exercises you can practice that teaches control
> is to go to a track in Practice mode and do nothing but drive around and
> around with your left wheels hugging the inside line for the entire time
> you're on the track.  When you're doing this, going fast is NOT as
> important as keeping your tires glued to the inside line.  Obviously, you
> should progressively try to go faster and faster, but NEVER NEVER
> NEVER let your tires leave the inside yellow line.  You're learning to
> keep your tires on the yellow line FIRST, and you're learning to go
> faster SECOND.  Remember that priority.

> The first time you do this, you'll be shocked at how much you have to
> slow down prior to (and while) entering a turn in order to keep your left
> tires on the inside yellow line.  DO NOT LET YOUR TIRES SCREAM.  It will
> probably feel like you're going WAY to slow compared to how you drive
> now, but that's the whole point: you're probably driving too fast right
> now and that's why you're not improving.  If you're relatively new to
> NASCAR and you can't beat the AI at 98%, it's almost guaranteed that the
> reason is because you're going too fast.

> Slow down before and while entering the turn, "feather" your throttle
> through the turn, and find the "sweet spot" near the middle to end of the
> turn where you can get back on the gas coming out of the turn.  Every
> turn is just a little different and you have to learn each one that you
> intend to master.  Timing is absolutely critical; if you miss the sweet
> spot, don't make it worse by trying to make something good out of a bad
> entry.  Admit to yourself that you screwed up and the best you can do
> is get back on your line and learn from whatever mistake caused you
> to deviate from it.  Back off, get your car back under complete control,
> and then keep going.  New drivers consistently try too hard to turn a bad
> situation into a lucky pass.  Just forget it, you might get lucky once or
> twice in a whole race but much more often than not you're going to end up
> in a wall, into another car, or at the very least being passed by four or
> five cars instead of just one or two.  In NASCAR, patience is not a
> virtue -- it's THE virtue.  When you screw-up an entry to a turn, all you
> can do is recover and try to be a little smoother (read: slower) the next
> time around.  If you can't seem to do that, then call your pit crew and
> tell them to get ready because you're about to have crash after crash
> after crash.

> Watch your speedometer closely and learn the maximum safe entry speed for
> all of the turns on the track you're practicing (Atlanta is an excellent
> track to start with).  After you can consistently drive around the track
> as fast as possible while keeping your wheels down by the apron lap after
> lap (I'm talking a few hours of practice per track here), then slowly
> start moving away from the inside yellow line and start looking for the
> real racing line that you would use during a race.  DO NOT do this after
> driving the yellow line for only 10-15 minutes.  Drive the yellow
> line for at least TWO full hours, more if possible.  None of the time
> spent down on the yellow line will be wasted.

> After you start moving up onto the rest of the track, it's absolutely
> imperative that you don't forget what you learned while you were driving
> around the yellow line -- don't forget how it felt when you could tell
> the car was almost starting to slip, but you were still keeping your left
> tires on the yellow line and your tires were still just barely (I mean
> BARELY) starting to whine.  Don't forget how it felt when you were
> driving "the line" and you could just tell that you were far enough
> through a turn to give it the gas again.  Don't forget how it felt when
> you got on the gas too early and you had to back off to keep your tires
> on the line or to prevent them from screaming.  You're doing the same
> thing now, you're simply doing it a little faster on a new, more
> forgiving line that you can't necessarily see.  Everything else remains
> the same, and everything you learned on the line still applies.

> To summarize, it's not really about how MUCH you practice.  It's about
> how EFFECTIVELY you practice.  Obviously, the more you practice
> effectively, the better you'll get, but if you're not practicing
> correctly, then you can drive for hundreds and hundreds of hours and
> never get over the 98% AI threshold.  If you do what I've described above
> and if you literally take as much time learning the corners as I've
> prescribed, you'll be beating 100% AI cars at Atlanta by the end of your
> first four- or five-hour practice session, guaranteed (or your money back
> <g>).  The thing that will amaze you the most is you'll discover what I
> said at the beginning of this message is indeed true:  To go faster, slow
> down.

> When you hit a turn "just right" and pass that ol' number one car to take
> the checkered flag, you'll be amazed at how smoothly and slowly you were
> driving when it happened, which is what made the pass possible in the
> first place.

> Good luck,
> Rick

sli..

Competitive against AI?

by sli.. » Tue, 30 Sep 1997 04:00:00



>There are many variables in this equation.  ...
>The next step is "human" peformance.  This will come in the garage and
>practice times on the track.  One really needs to understand the science
>of setting up a car for one's own driving style. ...
> Don't even think about concentrating on anything else until you have entrance down.  Next step
>is to start concentrating on the apex and the exit of the turn.  Take
>the tracks one step at a time and keep working on improving just one
>aspect of the track at a time. ...

>Once you make it around the track, you will usually find it's time to go
>back to the garage and start tweaking some more.  ...

>One last tip.  Drive ahead of yourself.  ...
>In case I forgot, practice, practice, practice...

>--
>**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
>     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

  Very good post, Michael. You can tell you race in real-life. This is
EXACTLY how it is when you are racing!
  Only other thing I would add... CONCENTRATE!

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