rec.autos.simulators

by **Randy Magrud** » Fri, 13 Nov 1998 04:00:00

>Lots of you in this forum have put in scores of hours with GPL (indeed some
>were involved from the very beginning with beta testing), not to count the
>hours on other sims. Real drivers did not put in this amount of practise.
>Hence my argument that it's not realistic.

But real drivers could feel the car in the small of their back. As
Christian Fittipaldi told me, that's what separates simulations from
real life. Dealing with GPL and practicing takes so much effort
because it takes a fair amount of time for you to develop an instinct
for something which you cannot physically feel, but which real drivers
could. They didn't have to "imagine" it. It was already there.

Your sales statistics are based upon...WHAT?

Randy
Randy Magruder
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **drbo..** » Fri, 13 Nov 1998 04:00:00

Am I the only one who finds it screamingly funny that some
people criticize GPL As unrealistically difficult because they think
_they_ could have raced Clark wheel to wheel in a 1967 F1 car?

I think it's unrealistic because so many people _can_ race
Clark wheel to wheel in the sim. It's gotta be too easy.

bob

by **Andrew MacPhers** » Fri, 13 Nov 1998 04:00:00

I should think so too! You're too fast to take part in this discussion... Dutch git ;-)

Andrew McP... who's only ever seen the back of Willem's car

by **Michae** » Fri, 13 Nov 1998 04:00:00

It does take time but it can be done - I find myself correcting slides with
steering input before there's any indication of the slide in the 3D view,
you can do this because you "know" certain behaviour takes place. For
example, if you are on the adhesion limit and you have to back off the
throttle because you're understeering towards the curb, you know that the
tail of the car will step out and you'll need opposite lock.

If you wait until you actually see it happen on the 3D view, its too late
and the tail of the car will go onto the grass and you've lost it.

- Michael

by **David Ewin** » Fri, 13 Nov 1998 04:00:00

> Am I the only one who finds it screamingly funny that some
> people criticize GPL As unrealistically difficult because they think
> _they_ could have raced Clark wheel to wheel in a 1967 F1 car?

Nope. After about five weeks, I'm in the middle of the pack (qualifying
around 11th). I'm sure if I was teleported back to 1967, it would have
taken me at least six weeks to be this good.

Dave Ewing

by **Marty U'Re** » Fri, 13 Nov 1998 04:00:00

> > Am I the only one who finds it screamingly funny that some
> > people criticize GPL As unrealistically difficult because they think
> > _they_ could have raced Clark wheel to wheel in a 1967 F1 car?

> Nope. After about five weeks, I'm in the middle of the pack (qualifying
> around 11th). I'm sure if I was teleported back to 1967, it would have
> taken me at least six weeks to be this good.

> Dave Ewing

But how many times have you 'died' getting to that level? :-)

Marty

by **John Walla** » Fri, 13 Nov 1998 04:00:00

Andrea de Cesaris had a lot more seat time than Ayrton Senna...

Cheers!
John

by **Byron Forbe** » Sat, 14 Nov 1998 04:00:00

Good point, but.......
Many of us simmers have as much sim seat time as Clark ever had in any car. So we should
be as good and better **in sims**.

> Am I the only one who finds it screamingly funny that some
> people criticize GPL As unrealistically difficult because they think
> _they_ could have raced Clark wheel to wheel in a 1967 F1 car?

> I think it's unrealistic because so many people _can_ race
> Clark wheel to wheel in the sim. It's gotta be too easy.

> bob

--
Byron Forbes
Captain of Team Lightning Bolt

http://members.tripod.com/~HOSHUMUNGUS

and

http://www.frontiernet.net/~godsoe/bolt/home.htm

by **Speed Race** » Sat, 14 Nov 1998 04:00:00

I can see where you are coming from in saying that GPL is frustrating,
but too difficult, I don't think so. I have limited time to play my sims
so I still end up off the road as often as I can stay on the road.
Whenever I get frustrated with GPL I usually do one of two things. First
I may play another sim (one that I can drive), or I think about how I
started in sim racing. The very first sim I ever drove was World Circuit
Racing (GP1). I can remember that I spent several months and very long
hours using Auto Brakes and Gears, because the sim was very frustrating.
Once it was all said and done I was driving GP1 with manual shifting and
manual brakes and could lap the field (AI) at Phoenix twice. I think
that where most of the frustration comes from is that you have felt the
joy of victory (in another sim) and can't wait to taste it again in GPL,
only problem is, that taste is wanted right away, and not with the usual
learning curve. My opinion is that as time passes by and the simulators
become more and more 'realistic', the longer the learning curve will
become, and I happily look forward to it. Just think how someone like
Rusty Wallace, Gerhard Berger(?), or Bobby Rahal (before retirement)
felt when they had a long winless streak. Sure they were frustrated, but
instead of quiting they just tried harder. :)

by **Eldre** » Sun, 15 Nov 1998 04:00:00

writes:

Only 15 laps??? Uh oh, I've done WAAY more than that. And I'm STILL too slow.
:(

by **webster,** » Mon, 16 Nov 1998 04:00:00

There's an option not to display the wheel and arms inside the***pit.

by **Paul Jone** » Tue, 17 Nov 1998 04:00:00

The traders on our trade floor have dual monitors with one special graphics card that gives them
2048x768 resolution spread across two 21 inch monitors. Not a big change to go to three. Of course
these are not game cards but not a big logical step to have a single graphics card that gives
3072x768 pluged into three monitors. Positioning would be tricky though - ideally these would be
alongside you rather than on your desk
Paul

> > > Perhaps lookleft/lookright
> > > running on satellite monitors?

> > Wouldn't that be superb? Given the ridiculous price of bottom end hardware, a couple of low
> > spec PCs networked to give low res peripheral vision would be amazing. Mind you, it'd need
> > a lot of tweaking to get right (the view angle might totally***up your perspective is it
> > wasn't right).

> > I doubt Win98's multiple monitor support could ever be much use for this... not unless you
> > could run under NT and utilise a dual CPU machine and persuade three gfx accelerators to
> > use different monitors. The 3 PC solution's probably cheaper and simpler!

> oh, you don't need special win98 multimonitor support. that's for
> windows multimonitor stuff. For *** purposes just stick in 3
> 3dfx cards - each one has it's own monitor output, the game just
> has a look and sees all 3 cards, and uses them appropriately...
> hell, if you had enough free PCI slots you could run Voodoo2 SLI on
> a 21" monitor for your primary forward view, and then have 2 cheap
> Voodoo1 cards to run your satellite displays on 15" monitors arranged
> suitably, since the Glide library can support up to 4 3dfx cards in one
> system. My desk is big enough to do this:)
> Also the game would need a configuration ability where the user
> can specify the exact locations and sizes of each monitor, the location
> of the user's head too, so the game can then calculate all the correct
> viewports and perspective levels to render the correct images to
> the monitors. fairly straightforward to do :)
> And the "gaps" between the edges of the adjacent monitors would
> "simulate" the roof supports at the edge of the windscreen (only
> applicable to non-open-wheeler sims, obviously)

by **Paul Jone** » Tue, 17 Nov 1998 04:00:00

> No matter how good GPL or N3 are, N3 is going to sell a lot more
> copies on the strength of the NASCAR name. GPL just won't show up on
> the radar for a lot of NASCAR fans. So this did give them some
> latitude in how they did the sim.

Maybe, maybe not. Nascar (and Indycar for that matter) aren't at all big outside
the US. Formula 1 is big right across the globe - in fact almost everywhere
except in the US. If N3 has arcade options then it will outsell GPL, but if they
follow up GPL with a 1976 F1 version with equivalent arcade options then I think
it will outsell Nascar 3. GPL is pretty much the first major Papyrus title that
is not US focused.
Paul

by **Paul Jone** » Tue, 17 Nov 1998 04:00:00

That's one fact I really hated when I first read it. I don't see Michael
Schumacher with a joystick installed in his Ferrari. I've never used a joystick
for a racing sim or any other game for that matter but can't imagine it would be
half as much fun as with a wheel and certainly nowhere near as realistic.
Which brings another thing I hate to mind - why do GPL and some other sims have
to do the graphics of the wheel and drivers arms when I'm sitting here with a
wheel and a pair of arms of my own. What I see are two wheels and two pairs of
arms. I'd like to see one set of these taken out in future releases (not mine,
of course :-) ).
Paul

> I believe Dave Kaemmer uses a joystick and also other Papyrus employees.
> Some of the fastest GPL drivers are using a joystick as well.

> David G Fisher

> >And up until I go GPL I was always able to do
> >well, and win races with a Joystick. No can do with GPL. You have to have
> >some type of throttle and braking that isn't ON or OFF (like a button on a
> >joystick). I have been able to do better (and have fun) with the Wheel and
> >Pedals.

> >Dean

by **Paul Jone** » Tue, 17 Nov 1998 04:00:00

And is it also how come JV can't hold a candle up to Michael Schumacher :-)
Paul

> >Good point, but.......
> > Many of us simmers have as much sim seat time as Clark ever had in any car. So we should
> >be as good and better **in sims**.

> What about all the people over the decades that had as much seat time as Clark
> but couldn't even come close to him?

> And how is it that Jacques Villeneuve is able to beat drivers that are older
> than he is with more racing experience?

> glen

rec.autos.simulators

GPL difficulty revisited

GPL difficulty revisited

GPL difficulty revisited

GPL difficulty revisited

GPL difficulty revisited

GPL difficulty revisited

GPL difficulty revisited

GPL difficulty revisited

GPL difficulty revisited

GPL difficulty revisited

GPL difficulty revisited

GPL difficulty revisited

GPL difficulty revisited

GPL difficulty revisited

GPL difficulty revisited

GPL difficulty revisited