rec.autos.simulators

GPL difficulty revisited

david kar

GPL difficulty revisited

by david kar » Tue, 10 Nov 1998 04:00:00

A fitting gaffe to reward with kill-file.  No one's killing anyone here, no
one's into genocide.  Nazism was real, ***y, and evil--& you just applied
it to computer gamers.  How pathetic. Too stupid for words.

So I'll stop.



>>> Hi Christer

>>> It would seem that critisizing GPL in this NG isn't just blasphemy, it's
>>> heresy.

>Lawerence,

>i prefer to refer to it as GPL-nazism.

>Z.

Byron Forbe

GPL difficulty revisited

by Byron Forbe » Wed, 11 Nov 1998 04:00:00

Christer, have you got the front and rear ride height the same? If not, the angling of
the car slows you in the top end. I have noticed that the AI is about 1 mph faster than me
in the Lotus ie prettywell spot on!
    If your doing low 28s at Monza then you are surely not struggling too much. Something
I have found that has a profound effect on the basic behaviour of the car is ramp angles
and clutchs.
    As usual, it's a tradeoff between stability and speed. For eg, the lower the second
ramp angle and the greater the clutchs, the more stable the car is under braking. However,
the car will not turn well into and thru corners while your off throttle. So far I have
found the exact opposite to be true for on throttle behaviour ie higher 1st ramp angle and
lower clutchs = more stability under power, with the accompanying lack of turning power
once again.
    So what's required is to find the optimum compromise between drivability and speed. It
looks to me that this is by far the most *** adjustment in the setup options with
reguards to the handling of the car. Those who fail to master this will be stuck in the
wilderness until they do :)


> Is GPL too unrealistic? I think it's unrealisticly hard to drive in GPL as you
> probably already figured out :o). I also think the AI is a bit unrealistic. I've
> been starting to fiddle with the npt_override in gpl_ai.ini and when I set it
> too 1.0 Mr Clark are always qualifying in the low 1:29's. I've done a couple of
> laps in the Ferrari and also studied the other AI's driving the Ferrari. I can
> only do around 305 - 306 kph in the Ferrari on the straights, but the AI are
> hitting 312 every time, so I'm guessing they must have a more powerful engine
> than mine, thus unrealistic. They also almost always outbrake me into the first
> Lesmo and Parabolica, they probably have better brakes. If I brake perfectly I
> can brake as good as they, but never better, not when the npt_override is at 1.0
> anyway. I also see them do some fast side to side movements on the straights and
> in corners that I cant possibly do without loosing the rear and I have my cars
> as far from oversteer as possible.

> Papyrus has their physics engine running at around 300 Hz, thus they are
> sampling the reality 300 times per second. Imagine recording sound with a
> sampling frequency at 300 Hz :o). The comparison is not completely fair, but I'm
> hoping it puts a finger on a little problem. When sampling you miss information.
> The problem here is that you have to dampening your physics engine no matter how
> fast it's running. This dampening is probably a science in itself, thus very
> hard to get right. I dont think Papy got it quite right.

--
 Byron Forbes
 Captain of Team Lightning Bolt

 http://www.racesimcentral.net/~HOSHUMUNGUS

    and

 http://www.racesimcentral.net/~godsoe/bolt/home.htm

Andrew MacPhers

GPL difficulty revisited

by Andrew MacPhers » Wed, 11 Nov 1998 04:00:00

ROFL! There's always one.

Andrew McP

Andrew MacPhers

GPL difficulty revisited

by Andrew MacPhers » Wed, 11 Nov 1998 04:00:00

Heh. Walked into that one :-)

Andrew McP

Andrew MacPhers

GPL difficulty revisited

by Andrew MacPhers » Wed, 11 Nov 1998 04:00:00

Wouldn't that be superb? Given the ridiculous price of bottom end hardware, a couple of low
spec PCs networked to give low res peripheral vision would be amazing. Mind you, it'd need
a lot of tweaking to get right (the view angle might totally***up your perspective is it
wasn't right).

I doubt Win98's multiple monitor support could ever be much use for this... not unless you
could run under NT and utilise a dual CPU machine and persuade three gfx accelerators to
use different monitors. The 3 PC solution's probably cheaper and simpler!

Always wanted something like this for Quake (when I played a lot). I believe the guys at ID
had Doom set up like this at some point, so it's not beyond the ability of coders.

Still, it'd be for a fairly small number of people, so it wouldn't really justify the development
time. I still want it though :-)

Andrew McP

Anssi Lehtin

GPL difficulty revisited

by Anssi Lehtin » Wed, 11 Nov 1998 04:00:00



> Great feedback, John. You'll find my setup and lap here -
> http://www.bhmotorsports.com/gpl/hotlap/ -. By jump I mean two spots on
the Ring
> and one spot at Mosport where the car leaves the track for a short
moment, cause
> you pass a crest at high speed. Was it as hard in real life jumping as
it is in
> GPL :o)?

> From your post it seems as if braking in reality was easier than in GPL?

I wasn't the original poster, but I here's my two cents worth:
I think that not having the feedback of weight transfer, roll, and
acceleration/deceleration makes braking (and judging when you are
"balanced" to take a jump) much harder than it would be with that
feedback.

PS. This is not to say that I would drive a '67 F1 car better than I do
the ones in GPL.

--
Anssi Lehtinen

Michael Powel

GPL difficulty revisited

by Michael Powel » Wed, 11 Nov 1998 04:00:00

Great! Did he ever take you with him on shoots? I went recently to the Coy's
Festival at Silverstone and they had a Klemantaski exhibition. My favourite
is the high shot of Fangio rounding Mirabeau in Monaco GP practice. I'm
going to order one of the prints when I can afford it.

I'll see if I can get it - I think it's called the Eye of Klemantaski?

- Michael

Zonk

GPL difficulty revisited

by Zonk » Wed, 11 Nov 1998 04:00:00


>A fitting gaffe to reward with kill-file.  No one's killing anyone here, no
>one's into genocide.  Nazism was real, ***y, and evil--& you just applied
>it to computer gamers.  How pathetic. Too stupid for words.

>So I'll stop.

A core feature of Nazism was about excepted *truths* and programming of them.
The large number of People on this ng who can't accept that some find a lot
wrong with GPL, and must insist on degrading them, or rubbishing them are
guilty of the above

Z.

Michael Powel

GPL difficulty revisited

by Michael Powel » Wed, 11 Nov 1998 04:00:00

justify the >development time. I still want it though :-)

I'm sure it will happen - apparently Microsoft's Combat Flight Sim has
multiple monitor support under Win98. I've got no room for 3 monitors
though:-(

- Michael

Byron Forbe

GPL difficulty revisited

by Byron Forbe » Wed, 11 Nov 1998 04:00:00

What we really need is good VR Glasses. Imagine a helmet type setup with the VR Glasses
and built in 3D Headphones. Now there's the future - the not too distant future I hope :))


> >  Perhaps lookleft/lookright
> > running on satellite monitors?

> Wouldn't that be superb? Given the ridiculous price of bottom end hardware, a couple of low
> spec PCs networked to give low res peripheral vision would be amazing. Mind you, it'd need
> a lot of tweaking to get right (the view angle might totally***up your perspective is it
> wasn't right).

> I doubt Win98's multiple monitor support could ever be much use for this... not unless you
> could run under NT and utilise a dual CPU machine and persuade three gfx accelerators to
> use different monitors. The 3 PC solution's probably cheaper and simpler!

> Always wanted something like this for Quake (when I played a lot). I believe the guys at ID
> had Doom set up like this at some point, so it's not beyond the ability of coders.

> Still, it'd be for a fairly small number of people, so it wouldn't really justify the development
> time. I still want it though :-)

> Andrew McP

--
 Byron Forbes
 Captain of Team Lightning Bolt

 http://www.racesimcentral.net/~HOSHUMUNGUS

    and

 http://www.racesimcentral.net/~godsoe/bolt/home.htm

Byron Forbe

GPL difficulty revisited

by Byron Forbe » Wed, 11 Nov 1998 04:00:00

I have a SB 16 and no worries here. Isn't it the same as GP2? Sorry, it's been a while
:) In any case, I can't see how this is different from real life anyway.


> Yes, I'm not very slow and I can make very consistent lap times, but I cant
> brake consistently, not even close. I get no feedback to tell me when I'm at
> optimum braking or have passed it or is not even close. It's even worse trying
> to brake side by side with an AI, cause then I cant even hear the little tire
> squealing there usually is, not knowing even if I'm way beyond the optimum
> braking until one of the fronts lock up, but then it's way too late. It could be
> something wrong with my Soundblaster 16, though???

--
 Byron Forbes
 Captain of Team Lightning Bolt

 http://members.tripod.com/~HOSHUMUNGUS

    and

 http://www.frontiernet.net/~godsoe/bolt/home.htm

Zonk

GPL difficulty revisited

by Zonk » Wed, 11 Nov 1998 04:00:00

Must say i'm sad to see that GPL didn't take advanatge of A3D/DirectSound3D.

If you have one, you'll know what i'm talking about.

Z.

Lawrence Edward

GPL difficulty revisited

by Lawrence Edward » Wed, 11 Nov 1998 04:00:00

Hi Zonker

I think perhaps we all need to take a step back and think about what effect
our language has on people. There are real people in this NG with real
feelings, which can get hurt. Often this is unintentional, or things are
said in the heat of the moment which one regrets later.

I think using "nazi" as an insult is too strong, although I know what you
are getting at.

I've 'lurked' in this NG for a long time (years) and only a few times been
brave (or foolish) enough to put my opinions forward. I find that every time
I do they get twisted and thrown back at me. I suppose this is to be
expected, but it still upsets me every time.

There is a definite trend to "follow the crowd" in this newsgroup. People
who express opinions contrary to the accepted ones inevitably receive abuse
in return.

A good example is Destroy's message. He put forward some interesting
suggestions which didn't hurt anybody and got several abusive messages in
return. OK, so he was stirring the pot a bit, but then I suppose that is
what this NG is for!

All I can do is appeal to everybody to think before they post, make this a
friendly place to be and then we'll all benefit.

Here ends the lesson <g>.




>>A fitting gaffe to reward with kill-file.  No one's killing anyone here,
no
>>one's into genocide.  Nazism was real, ***y, and evil--& you just
applied
>>it to computer gamers.  How pathetic. Too stupid for words.

>>So I'll stop.

>A core feature of Nazism was about excepted *truths* and programming of
them.
>The large number of People on this ng who can't accept that some find a lot
>wrong with GPL, and must insist on degrading them, or rubbishing them are
>guilty of the above

>Z.

John Walla

GPL difficulty revisited

by John Walla » Wed, 11 Nov 1998 04:00:00



A Nazi was simply a member of the German National Party, and the name
implies nothing more than that. Propagation of disinformation and
distribution of propaganda was practised by all warring factions.

More germane to this discussion, exactly the same comment can be made
of people who dislike GPL and disparage any evidence presented to show
positive results. Your description Sound remarkably apt whether
applied to fan or anti-fan.

Cheers!
John

Zonk

GPL difficulty revisited

by Zonk » Wed, 11 Nov 1998 04:00:00


I'm not intending it as an insult- perhaps some people do not geniunely
relaise how extreme the advoacy of products in this group is. To the extent
that all other products must be destroyed!!!!

Oh, i';ve been here for a long time to :) and know what you mean.

i don't know if it will ever be a friendly place ;) but hopefully a place
where people are at least tolerente of people's likes and dislikes.....

Z


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