rec.autos.simulators

Radeon 9800 Pro, still sucking

mjone

Radeon 9800 Pro, still sucking

by mjone » Mon, 07 Apr 2003 10:35:23

I just don't get it, I've done everything I can,
put on a new copy of XP professional, reinstalled
everything dx9a, latest drivers for everything, FPS
still suck compared to what the Ti4600 was getting.
using the same settings.  Lost everything on the HD
to try and get this card working better, but it just
does not get it. Anyone what to buy it?  Should
have kept the Geforce FX Ultra card I had.

Under the setting for D3D in the ATI control panel
what does everyone else set the setting to.
It does not matter what resolution 1280x960x32
or 1600x1200x32 get the same FPS, start around 29 and
goes down to 20 in the trioval at most tracks. The Ti4600
never went below 29 using 4xAA, and 4anso.

is there a tweak utility like the rivetuner somewhere for ATI stuff.

Sorry for all the post about this but it is driving me crazy,
i know this card should work better than this.

The system again.
Clean install of XP pro
1gig PC800
2.53 P4
audigy 2
120gig HD
momo
9800 Pro.

DB

Radeon 9800 Pro, still sucking

by DB » Mon, 07 Apr 2003 12:00:11

Have you played with any bios settings ?

Try turning fast writes on or off

setting agp aperture settings lower to 32 or 64 to
force textures to stay on the cards memory.

set setting agp to 4x

you should be screaming with that setup. I get 80 to
100+ with my 9700pro on an AMD/Via system though.
I run 1600x1200 2xfsaa 8x anisotropic and turn shadows
off.

Good luck to ya


Jason Mond

Radeon 9800 Pro, still sucking

by Jason Mond » Mon, 07 Apr 2003 14:42:09

Hi M,

I just did a quicky test with my ATI 9700 Pro, Cat 3.1 drivers.

Turn off forced 16x Anistropic filtering and set it to Application
Preferences.

My reasoning...

My A7N8X, XP2700+, 512MB, 8xAGP at 1280x1024x32 had these results at
Martinsville with 42 AI cars (and other settings to suit my CPU).

No FSAA, No forced Anis = ~60fps
6x FSAA forced = ~43fps, with a low of ~30fps in a crash.
6x FSAA forced, 16x Anis forced = 27fps in the pit.

Thank you for having me try this test -- I found that 1280x1024 x6 FSAA
looks mighty nice and runs well too :-)

Jason.


Joachim Trens

Radeon 9800 Pro, still sucking

by Joachim Trens » Mon, 07 Apr 2003 16:18:14

Are you sure that you have Vsync set to 'Always off'? Apologies for
suggesting this, but such a drastic loss of fps simply points to Vsync.

In the D3D control panel, I have optimized everything for quality: forcing
4xFSAA and 8xAniso (i.e. 'Application Preference' unchecked), Vsync 'Always
off', Truform 'Always off'. 'Texture Preference' and 'Mipmap Detail Level'
both set to 'High Quality'.

You don't really need something like Rivatuner for the ATI as its control
panel gives you access to the most important settings. Although RivaTuner
still works for overclocking the ATI (at least the latest version does).

Which driver version are you installing with your 9800?

Achim


Goy Larse

Radeon 9800 Pro, still sucking

by Goy Larse » Mon, 07 Apr 2003 18:34:11


> is there a tweak utility like the rivetuner somewhere for ATI stuff.

Tweak3D (or something) from www.rage3d.com, your one stop site for most
ATI related stuff

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

Roger Squire

Radeon 9800 Pro, still sucking

by Roger Squire » Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:45:08

There's a known slow-down bug with XP SP1, and a fix is available from
microsoft.  It's not publically available but should be easy to find on the
net.

rms

jwilson5

Radeon 9800 Pro, still sucking

by jwilson5 » Mon, 07 Apr 2003 23:57:56

Just read a review and the 9800 pro is slower than the 9700 and the ultra,
you may be fighting a loosing battle :(

Icer

Radeon 9800 Pro, still sucking

by Icer » Tue, 08 Apr 2003 01:22:29

Mind post a link to the review?

Thanks
G Patricks


>Just read a review and the 9800 pro is slower than the 9700 and the ultra,
>you may be fighting a loosing battle :(


>> There's a known slow-down bug with XP SP1, and a fix is available from
>> microsoft.  It's not publically available but should be easy to find on
>the
>> net.

>> rms

Marc Collin

Radeon 9800 Pro, still sucking

by Marc Collin » Tue, 08 Apr 2003 01:39:30

I wish people would quit telling others to reformat their hard drives and do
a fresh install of Windows to get video drivers to work better--it's
complete horse shit and a huge time consumer.

I guess I hadn't said it enough times to help you.

If you had searched here, you also would have found threads where I
discussed my installation of a Radeon 9700 Pro and how it gave the same or
lower fps as a GeForce 4.  However, you can run anti-aliasing and other
goodies with no fps hit on the Radeon where it will kill the fps on a
GeForce 4.  Lesson: if your FPS is low to start with, likely because CPU
power is lacking, the Radeon won't help to boost it.

The Radeon and the GeForce 4 should not be affected much by resolution or
colour depth.

Older cards would crumple under the strain of 32 bit colour or 1600 x 1200
resolution.

There are about 25 control panel settings that will adjust fps in a game and
there are about 30 settings in NR2003 that will affect NR2003.  List EVERY
single option choice in the game and in Windows Display settings and several
of us here may be able to help you to either adjust or realise that the fps
you are getting is "normal" for your set-up.  Since there are about 7
billion combinations and permutations, if you do not list every single
setting and option then it's just guess work and you get lots of so-called
experts telling you to wipe your system and start over--which is BS advice.
Anything that may be affecting the new video card negatively such as
left-over ***from nVIDIA, etc., can be removed easily without wiping your
system.  Also, unless you installed a bunch of ***beyond the drivers
themselves, it won't make a*** of difference whether you uninstall it or
not in XP.  XP will use the proper driver and ignore the old ones until you
put the old card back in.

Bottom line: you cannot build a system today that will run NR2003 with all
the eye candy on at 32-bit 1600x1200 resolution and have a decent frame
rate.

Put your GeForce 4 back in and wait for the next gen. of video cards to come
along.

Marc


Mitch_

Radeon 9800 Pro, still sucking

by Mitch_ » Tue, 08 Apr 2003 03:14:43

In certain situations a windows re-install can be done much faster than
tracking down whats causing the root issue.  And you get the added benefit
of knowing you are starting clean.   I know for certain I can have a squeaky
clean install of XP in 2 hours.  You are not giving any guarantees that you
could do similar using the standard troubleshooting process.

As Morris said he's already done a clean install and the issue still remains
so your point is mute..


> I wish people would quit telling others to reformat their hard drives and
do
> a fresh install of Windows to get video drivers to work better--it's
> complete horse shit and a huge time consumer.

> I guess I hadn't said it enough times to help you.

> If you had searched here, you also would have found threads where I
> discussed my installation of a Radeon 9700 Pro and how it gave the same or
> lower fps as a GeForce 4.  However, you can run anti-aliasing and other
> goodies with no fps hit on the Radeon where it will kill the fps on a
> GeForce 4.  Lesson: if your FPS is low to start with, likely because CPU
> power is lacking, the Radeon won't help to boost it.

> The Radeon and the GeForce 4 should not be affected much by resolution or
> colour depth.

> Older cards would crumple under the strain of 32 bit colour or 1600 x 1200
> resolution.

> There are about 25 control panel settings that will adjust fps in a game
and
> there are about 30 settings in NR2003 that will affect NR2003.  List EVERY
> single option choice in the game and in Windows Display settings and
several
> of us here may be able to help you to either adjust or realise that the
fps
> you are getting is "normal" for your set-up.  Since there are about 7
> billion combinations and permutations, if you do not list every single
> setting and option then it's just guess work and you get lots of so-called
> experts telling you to wipe your system and start over--which is BS
advice.
> Anything that may be affecting the new video card negatively such as
> left-over ***from nVIDIA, etc., can be removed easily without wiping
your
> system.  Also, unless you installed a bunch of ***beyond the drivers
> themselves, it won't make a*** of difference whether you uninstall it or
> not in XP.  XP will use the proper driver and ignore the old ones until
you
> put the old card back in.

> Bottom line: you cannot build a system today that will run NR2003 with all
> the eye candy on at 32-bit 1600x1200 resolution and have a decent frame
> rate.

> Put your GeForce 4 back in and wait for the next gen. of video cards to
come
> along.

> Marc



> > I just don't get it, I've done everything I can,
> > put on a new copy of XP professional, reinstalled
> > everything dx9a, latest drivers for everything, FPS
> > still suck compared to what the Ti4600 was getting.
> > using the same settings.  Lost everything on the HD
> > to try and get this card working better, but it just
> > does not get it. Anyone what to buy it?  Should
> > have kept the Geforce FX Ultra card I had.

> > Under the setting for D3D in the ATI control panel
> > what does everyone else set the setting to.
> > It does not matter what resolution 1280x960x32
> > or 1600x1200x32 get the same FPS, start around 29 and
> > goes down to 20 in the trioval at most tracks. The Ti4600
> > never went below 29 using 4xAA, and 4anso.

> > is there a tweak utility like the rivetuner somewhere for ATI stuff.

> > Sorry for all the post about this but it is driving me crazy,
> > i know this card should work better than this.

> > The system again.
> > Clean install of XP pro
> > 1gig PC800
> > 2.53 P4
> > audigy 2
> > 120gig HD
> > momo
> > 9800 Pro.

Larr

Radeon 9800 Pro, still sucking

by Larr » Tue, 08 Apr 2003 05:03:50

The latest PC World has a short piece on the Radeon Pro 9800 and how it is
not meeting expectations.  They are speculating that the drivers are screwed
up.

But this is ATI, they NEVER have driver problems :)

Larry


Aide

Radeon 9800 Pro, still sucking

by Aide » Tue, 08 Apr 2003 05:03:11

Marc's reference to the permutations with Nascar graphic settings etc is
also BS.

Most if not nearly all users will do the 3D Config at the beginning and
leave it alone because the game uses this to make the best compromise for
the users hardware.

It's not a competition i know but 2 hours for a complete format is a v
max.The backed up stuff takes no time now.

AD

Larr

Radeon 9800 Pro, still sucking

by Larr » Tue, 08 Apr 2003 05:05:51

Yeah, 'acquired' that fix as well.

It did indeed help boot times and _certain_ applications.  Mainly those that
move around large chunks of data.

I don't have the address with me, but it is available 'out there'.

Damn Microsoft and the hoops they make you go through to get these patches.
I'm so tired of their 'Contact Microsoft Support' horseshit when it comes to
these things.

Larry


Larr

Radeon 9800 Pro, still sucking

by Larr » Tue, 08 Apr 2003 05:08:50

I re-image every 6 months whether I need it or not.

You never realize how much Windows Rot is slowing you down because it
happens so gradually until you start fresh again.

Of course this affects people who do a lot of experimentation
(installs/removals of software, hardware, etc..) than others.  I do a LOT of
experimentation.

Larry


> In certain situations a windows re-install can be done much faster than
> tracking down whats causing the root issue.  And you get the added benefit
> of knowing you are starting clean.   I know for certain I can have a
squeaky
> clean install of XP in 2 hours.  You are not giving any guarantees that
you
> could do similar using the standard troubleshooting process.

> As Morris said he's already done a clean install and the issue still
remains
> so your point is mute..



> > I wish people would quit telling others to reformat their hard drives
and
> do
> > a fresh install of Windows to get video drivers to work better--it's
> > complete horse shit and a huge time consumer.

> > I guess I hadn't said it enough times to help you.

> > If you had searched here, you also would have found threads where I
> > discussed my installation of a Radeon 9700 Pro and how it gave the same
or
> > lower fps as a GeForce 4.  However, you can run anti-aliasing and other
> > goodies with no fps hit on the Radeon where it will kill the fps on a
> > GeForce 4.  Lesson: if your FPS is low to start with, likely because CPU
> > power is lacking, the Radeon won't help to boost it.

> > The Radeon and the GeForce 4 should not be affected much by resolution
or
> > colour depth.

> > Older cards would crumple under the strain of 32 bit colour or 1600 x
1200
> > resolution.

> > There are about 25 control panel settings that will adjust fps in a game
> and
> > there are about 30 settings in NR2003 that will affect NR2003.  List
EVERY
> > single option choice in the game and in Windows Display settings and
> several
> > of us here may be able to help you to either adjust or realise that the
> fps
> > you are getting is "normal" for your set-up.  Since there are about 7
> > billion combinations and permutations, if you do not list every single
> > setting and option then it's just guess work and you get lots of
so-called
> > experts telling you to wipe your system and start over--which is BS
> advice.
> > Anything that may be affecting the new video card negatively such as
> > left-over ***from nVIDIA, etc., can be removed easily without wiping
> your
> > system.  Also, unless you installed a bunch of ***beyond the drivers
> > themselves, it won't make a*** of difference whether you uninstall it
or
> > not in XP.  XP will use the proper driver and ignore the old ones until
> you
> > put the old card back in.

> > Bottom line: you cannot build a system today that will run NR2003 with
all
> > the eye candy on at 32-bit 1600x1200 resolution and have a decent frame
> > rate.

> > Put your GeForce 4 back in and wait for the next gen. of video cards to
> come
> > along.

> > Marc



> > > I just don't get it, I've done everything I can,
> > > put on a new copy of XP professional, reinstalled
> > > everything dx9a, latest drivers for everything, FPS
> > > still suck compared to what the Ti4600 was getting.
> > > using the same settings.  Lost everything on the HD
> > > to try and get this card working better, but it just
> > > does not get it. Anyone what to buy it?  Should
> > > have kept the Geforce FX Ultra card I had.

> > > Under the setting for D3D in the ATI control panel
> > > what does everyone else set the setting to.
> > > It does not matter what resolution 1280x960x32
> > > or 1600x1200x32 get the same FPS, start around 29 and
> > > goes down to 20 in the trioval at most tracks. The Ti4600
> > > never went below 29 using 4xAA, and 4anso.

> > > is there a tweak utility like the rivetuner somewhere for ATI stuff.

> > > Sorry for all the post about this but it is driving me crazy,
> > > i know this card should work better than this.

> > > The system again.
> > > Clean install of XP pro
> > > 1gig PC800
> > > 2.53 P4
> > > audigy 2
> > > 120gig HD
> > > momo
> > > 9800 Pro.

Marc Collin

Radeon 9800 Pro, still sucking

by Marc Collin » Tue, 08 Apr 2003 10:25:51

The word is "moot" and the fact that the problem remains proves my point
nicely.

Marc


> In certain situations a windows re-install can be done much faster than
> tracking down whats causing the root issue.  And you get the added benefit
> of knowing you are starting clean.   I know for certain I can have a
squeaky
> clean install of XP in 2 hours.  You are not giving any guarantees that
you
> could do similar using the standard troubleshooting process.

> As Morris said he's already done a clean install and the issue still
remains
> so your point is mute..



> > I wish people would quit telling others to reformat their hard drives
and
> do
> > a fresh install of Windows to get video drivers to work better--it's
> > complete horse shit and a huge time consumer.

> > I guess I hadn't said it enough times to help you.

> > If you had searched here, you also would have found threads where I
> > discussed my installation of a Radeon 9700 Pro and how it gave the same
or
> > lower fps as a GeForce 4.  However, you can run anti-aliasing and other
> > goodies with no fps hit on the Radeon where it will kill the fps on a
> > GeForce 4.  Lesson: if your FPS is low to start with, likely because CPU
> > power is lacking, the Radeon won't help to boost it.

> > The Radeon and the GeForce 4 should not be affected much by resolution
or
> > colour depth.

> > Older cards would crumple under the strain of 32 bit colour or 1600 x
1200
> > resolution.

> > There are about 25 control panel settings that will adjust fps in a game
> and
> > there are about 30 settings in NR2003 that will affect NR2003.  List
EVERY
> > single option choice in the game and in Windows Display settings and
> several
> > of us here may be able to help you to either adjust or realise that the
> fps
> > you are getting is "normal" for your set-up.  Since there are about 7
> > billion combinations and permutations, if you do not list every single
> > setting and option then it's just guess work and you get lots of
so-called
> > experts telling you to wipe your system and start over--which is BS
> advice.
> > Anything that may be affecting the new video card negatively such as
> > left-over ***from nVIDIA, etc., can be removed easily without wiping
> your
> > system.  Also, unless you installed a bunch of ***beyond the drivers
> > themselves, it won't make a*** of difference whether you uninstall it
or
> > not in XP.  XP will use the proper driver and ignore the old ones until
> you
> > put the old card back in.

> > Bottom line: you cannot build a system today that will run NR2003 with
all
> > the eye candy on at 32-bit 1600x1200 resolution and have a decent frame
> > rate.

> > Put your GeForce 4 back in and wait for the next gen. of video cards to
> come
> > along.

> > Marc



> > > I just don't get it, I've done everything I can,
> > > put on a new copy of XP professional, reinstalled
> > > everything dx9a, latest drivers for everything, FPS
> > > still suck compared to what the Ti4600 was getting.
> > > using the same settings.  Lost everything on the HD
> > > to try and get this card working better, but it just
> > > does not get it. Anyone what to buy it?  Should
> > > have kept the Geforce FX Ultra card I had.

> > > Under the setting for D3D in the ATI control panel
> > > what does everyone else set the setting to.
> > > It does not matter what resolution 1280x960x32
> > > or 1600x1200x32 get the same FPS, start around 29 and
> > > goes down to 20 in the trioval at most tracks. The Ti4600
> > > never went below 29 using 4xAA, and 4anso.

> > > is there a tweak utility like the rivetuner somewhere for ATI stuff.

> > > Sorry for all the post about this but it is driving me crazy,
> > > i know this card should work better than this.

> > > The system again.
> > > Clean install of XP pro
> > > 1gig PC800
> > > 2.53 P4
> > > audigy 2
> > > 120gig HD
> > > momo
> > > 9800 Pro.


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