rec.autos.simulators

This is a totally bogus argument. People will volunteer their time
when they want to, and other's who make more substantial efforts (or
who feel there time is worth something more) will ask to be paid. The
existence of one in no way affects the other.

Joe

And what the hell's this ***about "legitimate jobs"?! Ever hear of
CAPITALISM? Personally I have more respect for someone who can create
a legitimate product and sell it for a living than slaves who have
nothing to offer but their body, their time, and punching a clock.
"Legitimate jobs" my ass.

Joe

Don't let a bunch of whining leeches (as they were so aptly called in
this thread) get you down. You've created a product that a lot of
people want (even if they are too cheap to pay for it) and that alone
is something to be proud of. The fact that a bunch of losers whine
about the fact that your time and effort is WORTH SOMETHING only
serves to discredit themselves.

Joe

I agree with Joe, don't get down on yourself because of the closed
minded "give it to me free" people here.. you did a great job and
deserve every penny you can get.

TrenT

--
CatchMeIfU.........................Can

<snip>
: If you want to use the tracks from ICR2 in your N2 game, then by all
: means buy his program, and convert your own tracks over and use them
: accordingly. It is perfectly legal. there are no copywrite infringements
: here since he is not selling anything that was created by someone else.

I don't have the actual Papyrus license for ICR2 before me at the
moment.  However, most software contains a clause in the license along
the following lines:

"You may not use, copy, modify, or transfer the software or any copy in
whole or in part, except as expressly, provided in the this license.
All rights not expressly granted are reserved by the manufacturer or its
suppliers."

I will take a close look at Papyrus' license/agreement when I get home.
Just some food for thought.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

On Mon, 19 May 1997 22:01:02 +0100, "David Noonan"

Dave mate, don't let the bastards get you down.

It was June last year when ISC got heavy with Jan and I about Daytona
and to this day, I still get abusive e-mails, practically threatening
me if I don't send them my Daytona track.

Whats best of all is that in my case, it was going to be free anyway!

I feel that possibly because everything on The Pits is free, that
people expect everything else to be free in the Sim Racing world
apart from the Sims.

I applaud you for what you've managed to do (and wish you'd join
SimProject! ;-) and you've every right to charge for it.

Basically, it's available at a price and if you don't like the price,
go somewhere else. Oh, hang on.... you can't can you!

And to those vorlons among you reading this, don't flame Dave.
Gerhard and I don't charge for our programs because we don't
want to - it's the way we are. Dave produced a product for a
marketplace where there was demand. He's the retailer and can
charge what he likes. As the consumer, you just have to decide
if you want to pay his price or go else where.

I can't remember seeing anyone screaming at a supermarket
because the manager wouldn't let them have the food for free...

Cheers

Jed
The Pits

Why isn't everyone who speeds prosecuted every single time they speed?
It's simply not practical to catch and prosecute everyone who is
breaking an individual law.

Agreed.

---Jim

Fine, now apply the above statement to all the converted tracks out there.
Or apply it to none.  It is no more wrong for someone to make a converter
and release it free than it is to sell the same product.  Both are forms of
distribution.  Actually, the free way would do the most damage.  From the
responses about the converter, the people aren't complaining about one
existing, but that they have to pay to get it.

" It is wrong!!!!  (pst.   Where is my free copy?? )"  

Bunch of two faced, whinning cry babies.  Pay up, or shut up.

Just wait until Mr. Bill and Co. make it mandatory for a high school
student to " volenteer " X-number of hours of community service before they
can graduate.  Then we will see what they think of this volenteer crap.

   If a copy of Daytona was esconced somewhere on the net, free for the
grabbing but for conscience sake, I suspect the silence would be deafening,
the strident cries of "for shame" would be drowned by hypocritical glee.:)
I only point this out  because I think the bastard lives in all of us, given
the proper rationalization.  I wonder how many are posting anti-pirate
diatribes with clean Hard drives.
    Charge what you wish, Dave. I wish you well.
regards,
Gavel...track fodder in leagues everywhere! Someone has to come in 15th!!

Leech?
Who's the "leech" here?
This guy has taken liberties with someone else's product and is now trying
to make money out of it!!
What he has done, in the eyes of the law, is no different to what Microsoft
did when they had their knuckles legally caned for including "Defrag" and
"Scandisk" with DOS v6.2.
And we all know how quickly DOS v6.22 came out after the court case!!
--
Bruce.
"But that was then....and this is now!"
(Guess who!)

(snip)
Now if he wants to sell it let him do it. If Papy has a problem with that
let
them handle it.
(unsnip)

So if someone offers you a TV set that you know has been looted from a
shop, it's okay for you to buy it and it's the shop-owners problem to
prosecute the original thief, is that how it works?
--
Bruce.
"But that was then....and this is now!"
(Guess who!)

As do most crooks, but what they do to place food on the table and clothes
on their families backs is not generally accepted in society as being the
right way to go about it!
--
Bruce.
"But that was then....and this is now!"
(Guess who!)

Hi Jed,

I agree with everything you said. Hang in there Dave.

What's "SimProject"? Are you guys working to create an "open
standards" sim (i.e., something with and openly specified track and
car format)? If so I might be interested in offering my user interface
analysis and design skills (and programming if needed).

Joe

(snip)
The main question is, is it LEGAL (from a Papyrus point of view)
(unsnip)

The main question is, is it legal from ANY point of view?
And the answer is "NO"!

--
Bruce.
"But that was then....and this is now!"
(Guess who!)