rec.autos.simulators

by **David Gar** » Wed, 14 May 1997 04:00:00

< On Sun, 18 May 1997 Alex "The judge of marketing standards"

> : What he has done is a service to us, he has put many hours into this and
> : is only asking for compensation. I can see not paying for painted cars
> : but this is different,

Whats the difference Alex?! Both converters and graphic design take
time, effort,
and skill. Just because one learns C++, HTML, etc, doesnt make him more
deserving
of compensation in that particular field than it does someone else in
another.
Who are you to say who should get paid for their time and effort and use
skills
they have worked hard to aquire. Could it maybe be because your a better
"hacker" of
files than you are a so-called "Graphics artist" (which, BTW, I havent
seem ANY proof of)?

And the other is yours?!

It seems since YOU personally like a program then that makes it ok for
the person who
created it to ask for compansation for services rendered.

too amny people out there want somthing for

Yup, with your biased and hypocritical drivel it seems you are one of
them.

Please T-H-I-N-K before you speak my man, or you might find your own
foot inserted into
your mouth.

Congradulations!! You have just made "moron" of the month on my
"infamous" list.

Take care,

-DG-

by **David Gar** » Wed, 14 May 1997 04:00:00

> >Yes, And we have the right to boycott greedy individuals ! Thank God its
> >not about money for everybody.

Hey GMT, why dont you come over to my house, mow my yard, take out my
trash, and
clean my comodes. I'd give you money, but I wouldnt want you to think
that I thought
you were greedy!

-DG-

by **Jay Taylo** » Mon, 19 May 1997 04:00:00

> I think all of you shouldn't buy the ICR2 to N2 converter. First I have to
> say that I have nothing against the author of the program, Dave Noonan. But
> I think you people shouldn't buy it because he shouldn't make money on a
> thing like this. And yes I know that he spent many hours and days on the
> computer writting the program, but look at the guys who wrote utilies,
> making better looking cars, posting setups, forming an offline league, etc.
> Many of them spend a lot of time on the computer making them too. And no
> they don't get paid for doing it. They just make them because they want all
> the NASCAR fans to have a better game to play in, not because they want to
> make money.

> Just my opinion

I agree 100%. If you wanna make money off of it get the green light from
sierra to put it on a CD and sell it like they do with Duke and Quake
levels and utilities. But I don't think that sierra would have any part
of that. I can understand the time and effort it took, but charging
people seems wrong.

Jay Taylor

by **BURN N** » Mon, 19 May 1997 04:00:00

I've converted 4 tracks from ICR2 to N2 and graphically they are
outstanding but the AI is a little shaky on the tight racing conditions.
The "free tracks" that I've gotten thru the conversion utility are:
Cleveland, Portland, Nazareth, and Long Beach. So, it would be nice to
have Michigan, Indy, and some of the others... but to pay.... I don't
know????? Of course, eventually someone will buy it, convert it and post
to binaries the converted tracks in ZIP format for all to grab.

Andrew

by **Alex Santantoni** » Mon, 19 May 1997 04:00:00

> > I think all of you shouldn't buy the ICR2 to N2 converter. First I have to
> > say that I have nothing against the author of the program, Dave Noonan. But
> > I think you people shouldn't buy it because he shouldn't make money on a
> > thing like this. And yes I know that he spent many hours and days on the
> > computer writting the program, but look at the guys who wrote utilies,
> > making better looking cars, posting setups, forming an offline league, etc.
> > Many of them spend a lot of time on the computer making them too. And no
> > they don't get paid for doing it. They just make them because they want all
> > the NASCAR fans to have a better game to play in, not because they want to
> > make money.

> > Just my opinion
> I agree 100%. If you wanna make money off of it get the green light from
> sierra to put it on a CD and sell it like they do with Duke and Quake
> levels and utilities. But I don't think that sierra would have any part
> of that. I can understand the time and effort it took, but charging
> people seems wrong.

> Jay Taylor

What he has done is a service to us, he has put many hours into this and
is only asking for compensation. I can see not paying for painted cars
but this is different, if he wants to give it out that is his choice,
but if he wants us to pay, that is fine too. This is a fine program and
many months of very hard work was put into it. I feel like he deserves
some sort of compensation, too amny people out there want somthing for
nothing.

by **Skarekrow->** » Tue, 20 May 1997 04:00:00

I think Dave has every right to ask for compensation. Just like he
said if you have a problem with it then write your own converter.
I myself have no problem with him charging although I wont be buying
it. I dont like road courses, and am only interested in Nazareth and
Milwaukee. The price is a little steep for just two tracks but he
does have the right to charge you. Although on the other hand like one
guy said in this newsgroup. There have been a lot of utilities made
so far and no one has charged as of yet. By the way what ever
happened to Gerhard?

by **goose..** » Tue, 20 May 1997 04:00:00

> I think all of you shouldn't buy the ICR2 to N2 converter. First I have to
> say that I have nothing against the author of the program, Dave Noonan. But
> I think you people shouldn't buy it because he shouldn't make money on a
> thing like this. And yes I know that he spent many hours and days on the
> computer writting the program, but look at the guys who wrote utilies,
> making better looking cars, posting setups, forming an offline league, etc.
> Many of them spend a lot of time on the computer making them too. And no
> they don't get paid for doing it. They just make them because they want all
> the NASCAR fans to have a better game to play in, not because they want to
> make money.

> Just my opinion

Long live the free market system. If you wanna buy it, you buy it. If
you don't wanna buy it, you don't buy it. There's nothing wrong with a
little entrepeneurship; I think there's been a little of it in this
country's history, hasn't there?

by **Jeff Eucli** » Tue, 20 May 1997 04:00:00

BRAVO Alex!!

> > > I think all of you shouldn't buy the ICR2 to N2 converter. First I
have to
> > > say that I have nothing against the author of the program, Dave
Noonan. But
> > > I think you people shouldn't buy it because he shouldn't make money
on a
> > > thing like this. And yes I know that he spent many hours and days on
the
> > > computer writting the program, but look at the guys who wrote
utilies,
> > > making better looking cars, posting setups, forming an offline
league, etc.
> > > Many of them spend a lot of time on the computer making them too.
And no
> > > they don't get paid for doing it. They just make them because they
want all
> > > the NASCAR fans to have a better game to play in, not because they
want to
> > > make money.

> > > Just my opinion
> > I agree 100%. If you wanna make money off of it get the green light
from
> > sierra to put it on a CD and sell it like they do with Duke and Quake
> > levels and utilities. But I don't think that sierra would have any part
> > of that. I can understand the time and effort it took, but charging
> > people seems wrong.

> > Jay Taylor
> What he has done is a service to us, he has put many hours into this and
> is only asking for compensation. I can see not paying for painted cars
> but this is different, if he wants to give it out that is his choice,
> but if he wants us to pay, that is fine too. This is a fine program and
> many months of very hard work was put into it. I feel like he deserves
> some sort of compensation, too amny people out there want somthing for
> nothing.

by **Vac..** » Tue, 20 May 1997 04:00:00

>Sorry but I agree that we should not buy the converter. This a Sierra/Papy
>product that he has made changes to and now trying to sell it. We can't
>make/change tracks and sell them why should he be able to sell this. I am
>all for makeing tracks and that sort of stuff but sooner or later Sierra is
>going to come along and put a stop to this converter.

>Just my $0.02
>Rob

I agree. ICR2 and Nascar2 are the intellectual property of Papyrus
(now Sierra). As I understand it from my class in law school, no one
may use their products to make money without first obtaining written
permission from Sierra AND the owners of these tracks in this case. I
certainly will not support IP infringement. If he wants to do what
Gerhard did with ICR2 and N1, that's a whole different ballgame.

by **Tom J. Ma** » Tue, 20 May 1997 04:00:00

I think all of you shouldn't buy the ICR2 to N2 converter. First I have to
say that I have nothing against the author of the program, Dave Noonan. But
I think you people shouldn't buy it because he shouldn't make money on a
thing like this. And yes I know that he spent many hours and days on the
computer writting the program, but look at the guys who wrote utilies,
making better looking cars, posting setups, forming an offline league, etc.
Many of them spend a lot of time on the computer making them too. And no
they don't get paid for doing it. They just make them because they want all
the NASCAR fans to have a better game to play in, not because they want to
make money.

Just my opinion

by **Earl** » Tue, 20 May 1997 04:00:00

>>I think all of you shouldn't buy the ICR2 to N2 converter. First I have to
>>say that I have nothing against the author of the program, Dave Noonan. But
>>I think you people shouldn't buy it because he shouldn't make money on a
>>thing like this. And yes I know that he spent many hours and days on the
>>computer writting the program, but look at the guys who wrote utilies,
>>making better looking cars, posting setups, forming an offline league, etc.
>>Many of them spend a lot of time on the computer making them too. And no
>>they don't get paid for doing it. They just make them because they want all
>>the NASCAR fans to have a better game to play in, not because they want to
>>make money.

>>Just my opinion

>I think Dave has every right to ask for compensation. Just like he
>said if you have a problem with it then write your own converter.
>I myself have no problem with him charging although I wont be buying
>it. I dont like road courses, and am only interested in Nazareth and
>Milwaukee. The price is a little steep for just two tracks but he
>does have the right to charge you. Although on the other hand like one
>guy said in this newsgroup. There have been a lot of utilities made
>so far and no one has charged as of yet.

The main question is, is it LEGAL (from a Papyrus point of view) for
Dave or anyone else to charge for a converter?

Earl

by **wette** » Tue, 20 May 1997 04:00:00

Yes, And we have the right to boycott greedy individuals ! Thank God its
not about money for everybody.

utilities that he is selling retail. He put the work into

by **Michael E. Carve** » Tue, 20 May 1997 04:00:00

: What he has done is a service to us, he has put many hours into this and
: is only asking for compensation. I can see not paying for painted cars
: but this is different, if he wants to give it out that is his choice,
: but if he wants us to pay, that is fine too. This is a fine program and
: many months of very hard work was put into it. I feel like he deserves
: some sort of compensation, too amny people out there want somthing for
: nothing.

I wasn't going to wade into this mess, but... (that's never stopped me
before <g>).

First, I will defend Dave the right to make money any "legal" way he
can.

I take slight umbrage about thinking that the amount of time and effort
that one puts into creating an excellent carset is any less than a
"programmer/hacker". Heck, it would be nice to have $1.00 for each
person who uses mine and Richard's carset. I would use that money to
get a paddock pass to the Portland race and be able to make better cars.

The real issue here is one of "community". In has been the glorious
history of this community of sim racers to pour "***, sweat, and
tears" into making these sims more enjoyable and "realistic". In the
past this has been done as a labor of love. Everything has been freely
shared with the community. These people even share their techniques for
free with others providing the same types of utilities. This is my real
concern, are we going to "convert" this community into a little hot-bed
of greedy capitalism?! Or are we going to continue to provide
"excellent" utilities and "enhancements" in a sharing manner?

I do not want to see the spirit that has made this community what it is,
shattered.

[just my $.02 worth -- put 'em all in a jar and someday you'll be rich
<G>]

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

by **Skarekrow->** » Tue, 20 May 1997 04:00:00

I think I posted prematurely before, Michael you have said it all
brother. You should run for President. Dave you have every right I
guess to charge for your converter but think hard about this. I'm no
big time programmer, sure I made a track or two but if Ihad the
ability to bring to the community usefull utilities to make our Sim
experience a little better I surely wouldn't charge for it.
Dave you can charge if you want but you shouldn't. I'm neutral in the
matter because I personally dont care for ICR2 tracks with the
exception of Nazareth (which BTW The free version does convert) and
Milwaukee. Dave respect is earned not bought. Ok now for a little
praise Dave you done an excellent job with the converter.

by **Skarekrow->** » Tue, 20 May 1997 04:00:00

I'm no big time programmer, sure I made a track or two but if Ihad
the

Sorry this should have read ( I've edited a track or two )

rec.autos.simulators

Boycott the ICR2 to N2 converter

Boycott the ICR2 to N2 converter

Boycott the ICR2 to N2 converter

Boycott the ICR2 to N2 converter

Boycott the ICR2 to N2 converter

Boycott the ICR2 to N2 converter

Boycott the ICR2 to N2 converter

Boycott the ICR2 to N2 converter

Boycott the ICR2 to N2 converter

Boycott the ICR2 to N2 converter

Boycott the ICR2 to N2 converter

Boycott the ICR2 to N2 converter

Boycott the ICR2 to N2 converter

Boycott the ICR2 to N2 converter

Boycott the ICR2 to N2 converter

Boycott the ICR2 to N2 converter