rec.autos.simulators

by **Neil Charlto** » Sun, 20 Feb 2005 00:00:54

Been fiddling around with my settings, getting ready to try NSR tomorrow. I
have A8V, FX53 and X800XT and have been running all sims at 1024/768, 6xAA
and 16xAF and with all game options totally maxed out.

I was thinking of trying 1600x1200 with all other settings the same and did
a few tests. The change in N2k3 was only a 4% fps drop. Similarly in GTP
(not really surprising). I thought 'this is worth doing' but as it would
involve swapping my monitors about I thought I'd just test it on rFactor and
GTR. They both showed a massive fps drop of 18% when I switched resolutions
and I would therefore suspect that NSR will do likewise.

I guess what I'm asking is: has anyone noticed this before and, if so, is it
likely to be my settings or do ISI-type sims really struggle at higher
resolutions?

Regards

by **Larr** » Sun, 20 Feb 2005 02:21:58

You'll probably be fine. Max that puppy out!

I just installed a new GeForce 6800GT 256MB last night (I can't help but
give ATI a rest this time around) and your card is about 10% faster than
mine overall from what I can tell in the graphs I've seen.

All of my readings are sitting in the pits at Daytona for consistency.

I have everything maxed out and I'm getting 43fps.

My Radeon 9800 Pro gave me 8fps LOL.

It's not the res or AS that will kill you. It's the AA. If after cranking
everything up you want more performance, drop the AA down a notch first. It
may not correlate directy with your XT, but as an example at 4xAA my 9800Pro
got 8fps. At 2xAA it got 30. At no AA (Game Controlled which means off in
this case) I got 50fps.

AA is THE big killer in NSR which is kind of a shame.

If you don't want to drop the AA, try turning off the shadows/lighting.
That seems to be the second biggest fps eater.

I'm running 1280X1024 32bit, 8xAA and 16xAS. All options in the game full
on and I'm getting 43fps in the pits at Daytona with the 6800GT.

I also noticed that in NSR Daytona has a higher FPS hit than other tracks.
At Texas I was a good 15 or so higher.

I saw so little difference (about 2fps) between 16bit and 32bit that 16bit
doesn't make sense as a choice.

Now here's an oddity that I simply don't understand. In NR2003, I am seeing
almost ZERO improvement between the 9800Pro and the GeForce 6800GT. I do
believe that NR2003 is more accepting of 16bit settings so I might try that
since 32bit in NR2003 really doesn't buy much visual quality. This really
amazed me since the 6800GT is a FAR stouter card than the 9800Pro is, and
it's all fill-rate in NR2003 I think.

Maybe with the 6800GT and an Athlon64-3500 I've simply maxed out the SIM and
there is nothing more to be found.

Of course, you know how Windows is with Display Drivers. Even though I
scrubbed the ATI stuff out, you know how Windows reacts to Graphics Card
technology changes. Sometimes you just have to reload from scratch to get
the full benefit of the new card manufacturer.

I am in no way at all disappointed in the 6800GT. It's an amazing card (and
stable!). The NR2003 numbers just freaked me out a bit :)

-Larry

by **Plowbo** » Sun, 20 Feb 2005 03:41:57

find this for a good price somewhere, and who's card you buy (did it matter
to you)?

Larry enlightened us with:

> You'll probably be fine. Max that puppy out!

> I just installed a new GeForce 6800GT 256MB last night (I can't help
> but give ATI a rest this time around) and your card is about 10%
> faster than mine overall from what I can tell in the graphs I've seen.

> All of my readings are sitting in the pits at Daytona for consistency.

> I have everything maxed out and I'm getting 43fps.

> My Radeon 9800 Pro gave me 8fps LOL.

> It's not the res or AS that will kill you. It's the AA. If after
> cranking everything up you want more performance, drop the AA down a
> notch first. It may not correlate directy with your XT, but as an
> example at 4xAA my 9800Pro got 8fps. At 2xAA it got 30. At no AA
> (Game Controlled which means off in this case) I got 50fps.

> AA is THE big killer in NSR which is kind of a shame.

> If you don't want to drop the AA, try turning off the
> shadows/lighting. That seems to be the second biggest fps eater.

> I'm running 1280X1024 32bit, 8xAA and 16xAS. All options in the game
> full on and I'm getting 43fps in the pits at Daytona with the 6800GT.

> I also noticed that in NSR Daytona has a higher FPS hit than other
> tracks. At Texas I was a good 15 or so higher.

> I saw so little difference (about 2fps) between 16bit and 32bit that
> 16bit doesn't make sense as a choice.

> Now here's an oddity that I simply don't understand. In NR2003, I am
> seeing almost ZERO improvement between the 9800Pro and the GeForce
> 6800GT. I do believe that NR2003 is more accepting of 16bit settings
> so I might try that since 32bit in NR2003 really doesn't buy much
> visual quality. This really amazed me since the 6800GT is a FAR
> stouter card than the 9800Pro is, and it's all fill-rate in NR2003 I
> think.
> Maybe with the 6800GT and an Athlon64-3500 I've simply maxed out the
> SIM and there is nothing more to be found.

> Of course, you know how Windows is with Display Drivers. Even though
> I scrubbed the ATI stuff out, you know how Windows reacts to Graphics
> Card technology changes. Sometimes you just have to reload from
> scratch to get the full benefit of the new card manufacturer.

> I am in no way at all disappointed in the 6800GT. It's an amazing
> card (and stable!). The NR2003 numbers just freaked me out a bit :)

> -Larry

>> Been fiddling around with my settings, getting ready to try NSR
>> tomorrow. I have A8V, FX53 and X800XT and have been running all sims
>> at 1024/768, 6xAA and 16xAF and with all game options totally maxed
>> out. I was thinking of trying 1600x1200 with all other settings the same
>> and did a few tests. The change in N2k3 was only a 4% fps drop.
>> Similarly in GTP (not really surprising). I thought 'this is worth
>> doing' but as it would involve swapping my monitors about I thought
>> I'd just test it on rFactor and GTR. They both showed a massive fps
>> drop of 18% when I switched resolutions and I would therefore
>> suspect that NSR will do likewise.

>> I guess what I'm asking is: has anyone noticed this before and, if
>> so, is it likely to be my settings or do ISI-type sims really
>> struggle at higher resolutions?

>> Regards

by **Neil Charlto** » Sun, 20 Feb 2005 03:56:14

[snip lotsa good numbers]

Thanks Larry, those data will help a lot when I set things up tomorrow
(supposing the puppy arrives on time).

Regards

by **Larr** » Sun, 20 Feb 2005 04:15:09

PNY. They are all the same basically.

And it was available. Trying to actualy walk into a store and BUY a
high-end card is nearly impossible, especially for Radeon's.

I also like that the PNY is 100%, off-the-nvidia-assembly-line reference
build. No weird suprises.

PNY is nVidia's premier partner so they are first on the list for parts from
what I understand. That's why they are usually the one's in stock.

I could have saved $20 online but I like the ability to change my mind and
easily take it back to the store.

-Larry

by **Larr** » Sun, 20 Feb 2005 04:19:47

Just to amplify something. I did some serious testing since I last
posted...

This game does NOT like AA at all! They don't hide this fact. The Read-Me
even says you should turn it off.

I was testing at Texas. In the pits, at 1280X1024X32, 4xAA 16xAS I had
40fps.

I changed the resolution to 1600X1200X32, but dropped the AA from 4X to 2X.
Everything else the same. My frame rates skyrocketed to 125fps!

The more I experiment, the more it's clear. Anything above 2xAA in this
game is bad news. You can crank anything and everything else you want up to
full, but AA is the one that rains on the parade.

To be honest, I don't think it really helps much in this game anyway.

Another thing I've noted. If the graphics are 'dark' to you (they are to
me) and you want more of that 'papy' look to the Sim, turn off Specular
Lighting completely. The entire game brightens up immensly and the***pit
and other graphics get pretty close to what we are used to in NR2003.

-Larry

by **Mitch_** » Sun, 20 Feb 2005 05:02:38

> PNY. They are all the same basically.

> And it was available. Trying to actualy walk into a store and BUY a
> high-end card is nearly impossible, especially for Radeon's.

> I also like that the PNY is 100%, off-the-nvidia-assembly-line reference
> build. No weird suprises.

> PNY is nVidia's premier partner so they are first on the list for parts
> from
> what I understand. That's why they are usually the one's in stock.

> I could have saved $20 online but I like the ability to change my mind and
> easily take it back to the store.

> -Larry

>> find this for a good price somewhere, and who's card you buy (did it
>> matter to you)?

And the Pny clocks to ultra speeds without so much as a hiccup. YMMV
though.

Mitch
--
Remove "nospam." to reply.
SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

by **Larr** » Sun, 20 Feb 2005 05:14:05

Yeah, I read that too :)

-Larry

>> PNY. They are all the same basically.

>> And it was available. Trying to actualy walk into a store and BUY a
>> high-end card is nearly impossible, especially for Radeon's.

>> I also like that the PNY is 100%, off-the-nvidia-assembly-line reference
>> build. No weird suprises.

>> PNY is nVidia's premier partner so they are first on the list for parts
>> from
>> what I understand. That's why they are usually the one's in stock.

>> I could have saved $20 online but I like the ability to change my mind
>> and
>> easily take it back to the store.

>> -Larry

>>> find this for a good price somewhere, and who's card you buy (did it
>>> matter to you)?

> And the Pny clocks to ultra speeds without so much as a hiccup. YMMV
> though.

> Mitch
> --
> Remove "nospam." to reply.
> SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a

by **David G Fishe** » Sun, 20 Feb 2005 06:04:23

> > You'll probably be fine. Max that puppy out!

> > I just installed a new GeForce 6800GT 256MB last night (I can't help but
> > give ATI a rest this time around) and your card is about 10% faster than
> > mine overall from what I can tell in the graphs I've seen.

> > All of my readings are sitting in the pits at Daytona for consistency.

> [snip lotsa good numbers]

> Thanks Larry, those data will help a lot when I set things up tomorrow
> (supposing the puppy arrives on time).

> Regards

2 x AA will still smooth out the jaggies though. Run it at 1280 x 1024 with
2 x AA.

--
David G Fisher

by **Larr** » Sun, 20 Feb 2005 07:00:37

I'm good at 1600X1200 with 2x. 4x is where you fall off the end of the
world :)

-Larry

>> > You'll probably be fine. Max that puppy out!

>> > I just installed a new GeForce 6800GT 256MB last night (I can't help
>> > but
>> > give ATI a rest this time around) and your card is about 10% faster
>> > than
>> > mine overall from what I can tell in the graphs I've seen.

>> > All of my readings are sitting in the pits at Daytona for consistency.

>> [snip lotsa good numbers]

>> Thanks Larry, those data will help a lot when I set things up tomorrow
>> (supposing the puppy arrives on time).

>> Regards

> 2 x AA will still smooth out the jaggies though. Run it at 1280 x 1024
> with
> 2 x AA.

> --
> David G Fisher

by **Steve Simpso** » Sun, 20 Feb 2005 07:06:31

I've been experimenting a bit and I like the look of 1600x1200 with 8xAF and
no AA in GTR. Maybe NSR would be ok with those settings too.

by **Plowbo** » Sun, 20 Feb 2005 07:11:17

jebus, 400 bucks?

I thougth I read you had the 6600gt, dang... my bad.
I cant afford a 400 dollar card for my 45 buck game... LOL! hope the ol
4600 is up to the task. I been lookin at the 6600's though...
Larry enlightened us with:

> PNY. They are all the same basically.

> And it was available. Trying to actualy walk into a store and BUY a
> high-end card is nearly impossible, especially for Radeon's.

> I also like that the PNY is 100%, off-the-nvidia-assembly-line
> reference build. No weird suprises.

> PNY is nVidia's premier partner so they are first on the list for
> parts from what I understand. That's why they are usually the one's
> in stock.
> I could have saved $20 online but I like the ability to change my
> mind and easily take it back to the store.

> -Larry

>> find this for a good price somewhere, and who's card you buy (did it
>> matter to you)?

by **Larr** » Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:04:51

Well, I only buy a new Graphics Card about once every 1.5 to 2 years.

Plus I'm going to sell the 9800 Pro (and give my copies of Doom 3,
Battlefield Vietnam and Half-Life 2 away with it as incentive). That will
help knock down the cost of the new card.

I usually upgrade in a staggard manner. One year, the MB and processor.
The next, the Video Card.

Next time will have to be both though because of the PCIe thing. Ouch :(

-Larry

by **Norman Blac** » Sun, 20 Feb 2005 17:23:17

I have an X800XT and I run 1600x1200x32 mode with 4x AA and 8xAF. 3.4Ghz P4.
Game has max settings with 33 cars visible. I also changed the "AI max
texture size" setting in the .PLR file. This gives you max size/resolution
textures. Crisp!

No issues with framerate. The lowest is think I have seen is 45-50 on the
front straight of Indy with all cars in front of me at the start of a race.
Once the field stretches out the rate is typically in the 70s if my memory
serves me correctly. In other words even the min framerate is more than
enough.

Your X800XT should handle the high res quite well.

Norman

by **Norman Blac** » Sun, 20 Feb 2005 17:30:16

Interesting since the game has nothing to do with this. AA is a function of
the driver and video hardware. AA does increase the resolution that the game
renders to. For example 4xAA at 1600x1200 means the game renders to a
resolution of 3200x2400. This also means the frame buffers take up more
video ram so there is less room for texture storage. If all textures cannot
fit in video ram then things will slow down.

Norman

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