rec.autos.simulators

by **Douglas Elliso** » Thu, 06 Jun 2002 07:45:43

Anyone tried it yet.

HOLY COW

It's WORSE than before.

I had good online races with the GT mod (granted - only 3 cars) - but F12k2
is a Complete joke.

Consider this analogy

The net code in F12k2 is as usefull as a mouse with no buttons.

I'm going to try and record a movie of it with my digital camear - but to
give you an idea.

The other cars make brief, scattey appearences here and there from time to
time - more suggesting where the might have been, or perhaps will be within
the next few seconds.

Granted - I'm on 56k - but I tried 4 diferent servers - all the same.

Why can I play a perfectly smooth N2k2 game down a 56k, but I cant play
F12k2.

One answer - appauling net code.

Douh

by **Dave Henri** » Thu, 06 Jun 2002 08:29:54

if it's anything like F1 2001, then 56k just won't cut it. We had to
basically limit all our drivers to broadband. Sounds like that part has
remained.
dave henrie

by **Alan Bernard** » Thu, 06 Jun 2002 08:42:20

I realize that F1 2002 is not made by the mighty Papyrus, but what can you
expect with a 56k. In this day and age, you need a high-speed connection.

I think that overall most of you guys on here are just expecting too much.
Everything has to be GPL-like or it's not worth the spit of a cow.

Take the game or leave it, you have that much power.

Alanb

by **Douglas Elliso** » Thu, 06 Jun 2002 18:39:08

NO YOU DONT -

YOU DO NOT NEED BROADBAND FOR GOOD ONLINE RACING

I had a FANTASTIC race last night on Sierra.com at texas. 20+ cars - no
noticeable lag.

4 Cars at Monaco in F12002 and they're all OVER the effin place.

56k IS enough for online *** - it's just that only 1 bunch of programmers
have done it - the others either dont spend the time on it - or dont know
how to.

Doug

by **Andreas Nystr?** » Thu, 06 Jun 2002 19:16:40

Dont forget that you dont have dedicated servers in F1 2002, so the host
computer have to process all the data comming in from each client, as well
as sending info back to each client. When i host in GPL on my machine,
(duron 800, 384MB ram gf2mx etc, on a 256/1MBit connection) people complain
about warping, lag, etc stuff.
People get laptimes around 20secs at Monza etc.

If we just were allowed to have dedicated servers. :/

btw, what datarate did you play on?. i guess 8 is really maximum for modem.

> > I realize that F1 2002 is not made by the mighty Papyrus, but what can
you
> > expect with a 56k. In this day and age, you need a high-speed
connection.

> NO YOU DONT -

> YOU DO NOT NEED BROADBAND FOR GOOD ONLINE RACING

> I had a FANTASTIC race last night on Sierra.com at texas. 20+ cars - no
> noticeable lag.

> 4 Cars at Monaco in F12002 and they're all OVER the effin place.

> 56k IS enough for online *** - it's just that only 1 bunch of
programmers
> have done it - the others either dont spend the time on it - or dont know
> how to.

> Doug

by **Gerry Aitke** » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 00:26:39

> I realize that F1 2002 is not made by the mighty Papyrus, but what can you
> expect with a 56k. In this day and age, you need a high-speed connection.

MANY MANY times you have been told - YOU DO NOT NEED BROADBAND FOR
ONLINE RACING! FFS. Are you stupid!?

GPL works great with a 28.8k modem! I told you this the last time you
crawled out from under your stone to have yet another go at Papyrus and
the GPL community, but you chose to ignore the facts, only to return
months later, still spouting the same bollocks!

Is expecting 1998 online quality in 2002 'expecting too much'? It might
be to you, but you're a ***wit!

Your sneeringly

by **Douglas Elliso** » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 00:28:53

> > I realize that F1 2002 is not made by the mighty Papyrus, but what can
you
> > expect with a 56k. In this day and age, you need a high-speed
connection.

> MANY MANY times you have been told - YOU DO NOT NEED BROADBAND FOR
> ONLINE RACING! FFS. Are you stupid!?

> GPL works great with a 28.8k modem! I told you this the last time you
> crawled out from under your stone to have yet another go at Papyrus and
> the GPL community, but you chose to ignore the facts, only to return
> months later, still spouting the same bollocks!

> > I think that overall most of you guys on here are just expecting too
much.
> > Everything has to be GPL-like or it's not worth the spit of a cow.

> Is expecting 1998 online quality in 2002 'expecting too much'? It might
> be to you, but you're a ***wit!

> Your sneeringly

THANKYOU!!

Doug

by **Goy Larse** » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 01:16:01

> I realize that F1 2002 is not made by the mighty Papyrus, but what can you
> expect with a 56k. In this day and age, you need a high-speed connection.

Actually you don't, you can play just about any online game there is on
a 56k connection, FPS games, RealTime Strategy, flight
sims......somehow, this hasn't quite trickled through to some sim racing
developers

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
--Groucho Marx--

by **Alan Bernard** » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 04:19:17

No, I'm not stupid. But you must be for calling me that.

You've only proven my point, some GPLers (you are definitely included) have
such narrow minds and can't see beyond their own loyalties.

Finally, I don't think I ever said a thing about Papyrus and how good their
online is and their racing games in particular. To say Papyrus' online
module and racing games are no good would be stupid, since clearly they are.
To say that all other racing games are nothing compared to what Papyrus has
to offer and GPL in particular is where I draw the line.

Just like there are multiple religions in the world, so are there multiple
racing games, equally as good. You have your likes and others have theirs.
Such simple ideas are sometimes the hardest to understand.

Alanb

by **Alan Bernard** » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 04:21:26

The question is not can you play online with a 56k, but the quality of the
connection. If you want to play online and have minimal lag, for the most
part, you need Cable or DSL. If you think otherwise you're only wishing you
had a high-speed connection.

Alanb

> > I realize that F1 2002 is not made by the mighty Papyrus, but what can
you
> > expect with a 56k. In this day and age, you need a high-speed
connection.

> Actually you don't, you can play just about any online game there is on
> a 56k connection, FPS games, RealTime Strategy, flight
> sims......somehow, this hasn't quite trickled through to some sim racing
> developers

> Beers and cheers
> (uncle) Goy

> "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

> "A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
> --Groucho Marx--

by **Goy Larse** » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 05:03:51

> The question is not can you play online with a 56k, but the quality of the
> connection. If you want to play online and have minimal lag, for the most
> part, you need Cable or DSL. If you think otherwise you're only wishing you
> had a high-speed connection.

Think again

I've been playing online games since 97 or thereabouts, and have over
time used 33.6k and 56k analogue modems, 64/128k ISDN, 1 mbit SDSL,
384/128k ADSL and various forms of leased lines (variations of T1 if you
will)

I currently have an ADSL connection here at home with an ISDN card for
backup, I can connect through either and the difference is none to
negligible in most online games

As you say yourself, the question is the quality of connection, having a
fatter pipe (broadband) gives you no advantage over a thin pipe (dial
up) as long as your actual throughput is higher than what's needed for
the game in question, online *** lives and dies by how fast your
packets travel from your machine to the server and back, latency is what
it's all about......as long as the multiplayer code is up to scratch

An analogue connection, say a 56k modem, does have a slightly higher
latency than an ISDN or ADSL/Cable, but even back in 98 when we were
racing on TEN, we had very good connections racing from Europe on
analogue modems

It's not like they have to pass a whole lot of data at once you know,
it's tiny continuous stream of packets that does it.....giving a half
decent multiplayer code

Papy aren't the only ones who does good multiplayer, plenty of other
game types have excellent multiplayer, it's just that when it comes to
racing sims, they're in their own league, and the fact that most (any ?)
others still haven't arrived at the point where Papy was with the
release of GPL over 3 years ago is just sad, at least if they're trying,
if they don't care about online ***, fair enough

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

by **B.Farme** » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 05:22:30

I am inclined to agree w/ the 1st two points you make, but I think you are a
little confused. Quality & "lag" (assuming you mean ping times or latency)
are *NOT* the same thing.

And, actually, I *DO* wish I had a cable connection again (moved recently to
a town that doesn't have any broadband connections), but not for racing.
Best conn speed I get now is 26,400 to 28,800, w/ active pings between 210 -
235, but w/ consistant 99% - 100% quality (N2002). I had *less* quality
when on attbi cable, & the warp & discos were *more* common then, although
the ping times were lower... ~70 - 75.

IMHO, unless you are hosting, quality is more important than the ping times,
& some cable co.s are not known for their connection quality.

OTOH, 45 min to download a ~4 meg update is enough to make me pull my hair
out... but that's another story. ;-)

Brian

> > > I realize that F1 2002 is not made by the mighty Papyrus, but what can
> you
> > > expect with a 56k. In this day and age, you need a high-speed
> connection.

> > Actually you don't, you can play just about any online game there is on
> > a 56k connection, FPS games, RealTime Strategy, flight
> > sims......somehow, this hasn't quite trickled through to some sim racing
> > developers

> > Beers and cheers
> > (uncle) Goy

> > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

> > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
> > --Groucho Marx--

by **Alan Bernard** » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 05:32:37

Certainly latency is key in online games. But overall and generally, Cable
modems are better for *** than are 56k modems. That seems like a
resaonable assumption to make. My ISP is fantastic (except for its
newsgroups, the server seeming to be always down. And no matter what
someone else may think or want to believe, I'd be a fool to return to a
dial-up connection. My cable connection (and, I would suspect, 90% of
everyone else's) is 30 times better for online *** than a 56k.

Alanb

> > The question is not can you play online with a 56k, but the quality of
the
> > connection. If you want to play online and have minimal lag, for the
most
> > part, you need Cable or DSL. If you think otherwise you're only wishing
> you
> > had a high-speed connection.

> > Alanb

> I am inclined to agree w/ the 1st two points you make, but I think you are
a
> little confused. Quality & "lag" (assuming you mean ping times or
latency)
> are *NOT* the same thing.

> And, actually, I *DO* wish I had a cable connection again (moved recently
to
> a town that doesn't have any broadband connections), but not for racing.
> Best conn speed I get now is 26,400 to 28,800, w/ active pings between
210 -
> 235, but w/ consistant 99% - 100% quality (N2002). I had *less* quality
> when on attbi cable, & the warp & discos were *more* common then, although
> the ping times were lower... ~70 - 75.

> IMHO, unless you are hosting, quality is more important than the ping
times,
> & some cable co.s are not known for their connection quality.

> OTOH, 45 min to download a ~4 meg update is enough to make me pull my hair
> out... but that's another story. ;-)

> Brian

> > > > I realize that F1 2002 is not made by the mighty Papyrus, but what
can
> > you
> > > > expect with a 56k. In this day and age, you need a high-speed
> > connection.

> > > Actually you don't, you can play just about any online game there is
on
> > > a 56k connection, FPS games, RealTime Strategy, flight
> > > sims......somehow, this hasn't quite trickled through to some sim
racing
> > > developers

> > > Beers and cheers
> > > (uncle) Goy

> > > "The Pits" http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
> > > --Groucho Marx--

by **Haqsa** » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 07:30:03

56k is fine for the client, but not for the server. At least not for
any games that I am familiar with (admittedly I don't do much online
racing). I think that most people who run GPL or NR2002 servers are
running dedicated servers on a high bandwidth connection. Have any of
you tried running a GPL *server* on a 56k connection? And playing on
the same machine at the same time? I doubt that it would work very
well. With EA's F1 series there is no dedicated server, if I'm not
mistaken. That means the guy running the server both needs to be on a
high bandwidth connection and needs to have a fast machine, or game
quality will suffer.

> Certainly latency is key in online games. But overall and generally,
Cable
> modems are better for *** than are 56k modems. That seems like a
> resaonable assumption to make. My ISP is fantastic (except for its
> newsgroups, the server seeming to be always down. And no matter what
> someone else may think or want to believe, I'd be a fool to return to
a
> dial-up connection. My cable connection (and, I would suspect, 90% of
> everyone else's) is 30 times better for online *** than a 56k.

> Alanb

> > > The question is not can you play online with a 56k, but the
quality of
> the
> > > connection. If you want to play online and have minimal lag, for
the
> most
> > > part, you need Cable or DSL. If you think otherwise you're only
wishing
> > you
> > > had a high-speed connection.

> > > Alanb

> > I am inclined to agree w/ the 1st two points you make, but I think
you are
> a
> > little confused. Quality & "lag" (assuming you mean ping times or
> latency)
> > are *NOT* the same thing.

> > And, actually, I *DO* wish I had a cable connection again (moved
recently
> to
> > a town that doesn't have any broadband connections), but not for
racing.
> > Best conn speed I get now is 26,400 to 28,800, w/ active pings
between
> 210 -
> > 235, but w/ consistant 99% - 100% quality (N2002). I had *less*
quality
> > when on attbi cable, & the warp & discos were *more* common then,
although
> > the ping times were lower... ~70 - 75.

> > IMHO, unless you are hosting, quality is more important than the
ping
> times,
> > & some cable co.s are not known for their connection quality.

> > OTOH, 45 min to download a ~4 meg update is enough to make me pull
my hair
> > out... but that's another story. ;-)

> > Brian

> > > > > I realize that F1 2002 is not made by the mighty Papyrus, but
what
> can
> > > you
> > > > > expect with a 56k. In this day and age, you need a high-speed
> > > connection.

> > > > Actually you don't, you can play just about any online game
there is
> on
> > > > a 56k connection, FPS games, RealTime Strategy, flight
> > > > sims......somehow, this hasn't quite trickled through to some
sim
> racing
> > > > developers

> > > > Beers and cheers
> > > > (uncle) Goy

> > > > "The Pits" http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> > > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
> > > > --Groucho Marx--

by **Douglas Elliso** » Fri, 07 Jun 2002 07:29:35

That was not your orig. point though -

" In this day and age, you need a high-speed connection."

Which is not true

Doug

rec.autos.simulators

F12k2 Multiplayer

F12k2 Multiplayer

F12k2 Multiplayer

F12k2 Multiplayer

F12k2 Multiplayer

F12k2 Multiplayer

F12k2 Multiplayer

F12k2 Multiplayer

F12k2 Multiplayer

F12k2 Multiplayer

F12k2 Multiplayer

F12k2 Multiplayer

F12k2 Multiplayer

F12k2 Multiplayer

F12k2 Multiplayer

F12k2 Multiplayer