rec.autos.simulators

Rally racing

ayemdee..

Rally racing

by ayemdee.. » Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:42:15

        I was watching WRC on Speedvision.  This is the first time I
actually sat down to watch the whole thing.  Most of the time I don't
pay attention to what the co-driver is saying.  What does "3-left,
2-flat, 5-straight" etc.  mean.  What is he trying to say to the
driver.  Why do rally drivers get a co-driver to help him with the
directions?  
Tony R

Rally racing

by Tony R » Tue, 05 Feb 2002 18:27:11


>Why do rally drivers get a co-driver to help him with the
>directions?  

That's because rally drivers aren't very smart and they'd get lost
without directions.
remove EATSPAM to repl

Rally racing

by remove EATSPAM to repl » Tue, 05 Feb 2002 17:53:56


1-5 is the degree of the bend in the road. 1 is a slight turn,
5 is almost a right-angle turn (like 60 degrees). There's also
the square turn (square left) and the hairpin turn.

It helps the drivers maintain higher speed as they don't have to
"slow down" to anticipate the turn. If you don't know how sharp
the corner is you will slow down to what you THINK the corner is
and that may be slower than what you can do had you know.

--KC

Txl

Rally racing

by Txl » Tue, 05 Feb 2002 19:06:04

Rally racing is almost "blind driving"

The copilot tells me pilot the 2 next corners and the pilot just does what
he's told, sometimes (at least once a year) one team ***s up in the notes
and that makes for a nice film sequence, something like (left 3 on crest)
when it's a right 5...

In the same style i suggest you watch the winter olympics, and the week
after or 2 weeks after you have the paralympics which are the games for the
handicapped, one of the most impressive events is the blind ski, a blind
skier makes the slalom and his "partner" is 10 meters behind him yelling
"right" and "left", you can imagine the amount of trust/coordination it
requires to do this...



na_bike

Rally racing

by na_bike » Tue, 05 Feb 2002 20:10:45

On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 08:53:56 GMT, "Kasey Chang \(remove EATSPAM to



>> I was watching WRC on Speedvision.  This is the first time I
>> actually sat down to watch the whole thing.  Most of the time I don't
>> pay attention to what the co-driver is saying.  What does "3-left,
>> 2-flat, 5-straight" etc.  mean.  What is he trying to say to the
>> driver.

>1-5 is the degree of the bend in the road. 1 is a slight turn,
>5 is almost a right-angle turn (like 60 degrees). There's also
>the square turn (square left) and the hairpin turn.

It varies, there are several pace-note systems as well as some drivers
have their home-brewed ones.

For instance, in the system Nicky Grist and Colin McRae use, the
corner number stands for which gear should be used. There's a whole
lot of other information in the pace notes on top of just corner
speed, like distance to next turn/mark, tightening/opening corner,
cautions(rocks, logs, ice-patches, et.c.), crests...

na_bike

Rally racing

by na_bike » Tue, 05 Feb 2002 20:25:47


>    I was watching WRC on Speedvision.  This is the first time I
>actually sat down to watch the whole thing.  Most of the time I don't
>pay attention to what the co-driver is saying.  What does "3-left,
>2-flat, 5-straight" etc.  mean.  What is he trying to say to the
>driver.  Why do rally drivers get a co-driver to help him with the
>directions?  

All things in rallying today can be traced back to it's roots back in
the early years(read: beginning of last century) where it was very
different than today. Then you had the co-driver(navigator in those
days) reading an actual roadmap, as you were going from like Warsaw to
Monte Carlo!

Rallying(which strictly speaking isn't racing if you don't mind me
getting a bit anal), comes from the actual word Rally(Rallye if you're
french). I.e. a gathering. As late as in the 60's the Monte Carlo was
a "Rally"-rally, and the cars started from different parts of Europe
to converge in Monte Carlo.

Nowadays they describe the road ahead on the special stages, as well
as doing a load of other tasks in between like keeping tracks of the
time-sheets with arrival times and the like and not getting lost on
the transport stages. :)

Steffle

Rally racing

by Steffle » Tue, 05 Feb 2002 20:49:32



> >Why do rally drivers get a co-driver to help him with the
> >directions?

> That's because rally drivers aren't very smart and they'd get lost
> without directions.

ROTFLMAO***
Gunnar Horrigm

Rally racing

by Gunnar Horrigm » Tue, 05 Feb 2002 21:29:19




> > I was watching WRC on Speedvision.  This is the first time I
> > actually sat down to watch the whole thing.  Most of the time I don't
> > pay attention to what the co-driver is saying.  What does "3-left,
> > 2-flat, 5-straight" etc.  mean.  What is he trying to say to the
> > driver.

> 1-5 is the degree of the bend in the road. 1 is a slight turn,
> 5 is almost a right-angle turn (like 60 degrees). There's also
> the square turn (square left) and the hairpin turn.

Colin McRae (and a few others, I think) use a different system, where
the co-driver calls the preferred gear for the corner.

--
Gunnar
    #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
               "a language is a dialect with an army and a navy"

David Butter

Rally racing

by David Butter » Tue, 05 Feb 2002 23:26:13


The "1-left" etc is to inform the driver what the next corner's like
(actually, it's usually the next corner but two given the speed these
folks re going!). As mentioned elsewhere, a "1" corner is just a kink,
pretty much flat-out, while a "5" is a much steeper bend, with "square"
and "hairpin" also.

This, while the most popular system these days, isn't the only
"numeric" system in use - there's also a version where the numbers
refer to the gear of the corner (so a "1" here would be a very *slow*
corner - let's hope the driver knows which system is being used!).

There's also what's called the "descriptive" system of pacenotes, which
is less popular these days than it used to be, but is still employed by
a couple of the top drivers - Juha Kankkunen and Alister McRae. This
uses a complicated set of codes for various corners - "easy right", "K
left", "absolute right into long open left" and so on. Numbers between
indicate distances betweeen corners - "easy right, 40, opens into long
flat right, 200" and so on.

As to why the co-driver is there in the first place, the name itself
("co-driver" rather than just "navigator") gives you a clue. Modern
rallying is essentially a series of sprints, but up until the 1980s it
was much more of an endurance event, with longer events (the RAC Rally
lasted 5 days for years), far longer distances on the open road between
stages and very little sleep for the crews. So the co-driver would
drive the car on the road sections while the driver got some sleep.

Also, remember that some rallies still don't allow pacenotes (I believe
this is the case in most rallies in Canada, and even the RAC Rally
didn't allow them until 1990), so the co-driver has to "read the road"
with the aid of a map and "road book" rather than "just" yell out the
notes.

On top of all this, a second pair of hands comes in very handy after an
accident or breakdown!

--
"After all, a mere thousand yards... such a harmless little knoll,
really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

The GPL Scrapyard: bits 'n' bobs at http://www.hillclimbfan.f2s.com

John Courtne

Rally racing

by John Courtne » Wed, 06 Feb 2002 03:48:11

Hi,
    This thread has been informative!  I just started watching WRC on
speedvision last fall when we got it here.  The only thing I am confused
about is what some co-drivers mean when they say + (plus) or - (minus), I
assume that has to do with negative or positive camber of the turn?

John

Dale Gree

Rally racing

by Dale Gree » Wed, 06 Feb 2002 05:12:27


Proof that CMR2 is a good sim... there's a mis-called corner in Kenya, I
think.  Co-driver gets the direction wrong.

Either that or I always***up at the same place...

Dale.

Kendt Eklu

Rally racing

by Kendt Eklu » Wed, 06 Feb 2002 05:30:41


> I was watching WRC on Speedvision.  This is the first time I
> actually sat down to watch the whole thing.  Most of the time I don't
> pay attention to what the co-driver is saying.  What does "3-left,
> 2-flat, 5-straight" etc.  mean.  What is he trying to say to the
> driver.  Why do rally drivers get a co-driver to help him with the
> directions?

They're called pace notes - the driver and co-driver generate the
notes during pre-rally reconnaisance(sp?) of the rally stages.  The
notes you describe sound like Colin McRae's (co-driver Nicky Grist).
IIRC he uses a system that indicates the desired gear for the corner -
with modifications to further describe the corner - crests, obstacles
(i.e. don't cut = don't cut the corner due to a ditch, stump, wall,
etc.), increasing (opens) and decreasing (tightens) radius, etc.
Different drivers and co-drivers use different systems.
If the driver knows whats coming up ahead of time, he knows what to do
before he gets there and can maintain maximum speed and avoid hazards.

HTH,
Kendt

Ding

Rally racing

by Ding » Wed, 06 Feb 2002 05:40:52


> I was watching WRC on Speedvision.  This is the first time I
> actually sat down to watch the whole thing.  Most of the time I don't
> pay attention to what the co-driver is saying.  What does "3-left,
> 2-flat, 5-straight" etc.  mean.  What is he trying to say to the
> driver.  Why do rally drivers get a co-driver to help him with the
> directions?

Not sure what the terms the co-driver is spouting off actualy mean but
the reason they have a co-driver is that in ralley the entrants do not
have race on a repetitive track, so it is almost impossible for the
driver to memorize all of the information about the track, so the
co-driver studies the track  (notice they always have a notepad with
them) and relays all of that information to the driver. The driver
mostly reacts to the situation whereas the co-driver is the real
brains of the operation!

Welcome to the wonderful world of Ralley! Check out WRC or
speedvision.com, they should help you learn more of this extremely
complex sport.

I.R.DINGUS!

ayemdee..

Rally racing

by ayemdee.. » Wed, 06 Feb 2002 05:42:36




>>Why do rally drivers get a co-driver to help him with the
>>directions?  

>That's because rally drivers aren't very smart and they'd get lost
>without directions.

If I had a co-driver in real life telling me where to drive I'd get
pretty pissed quick.  Sort of like my mom telling my dad how to drive.
"Turn left there, no wait, right."  

I wish GPL had a co-driver option.

ayemdee..

Rally racing

by ayemdee.. » Wed, 06 Feb 2002 05:42:37

On 4 Feb 2002 14:26:13 GMT, David Buttery


>As to why the co-driver is there in the first place, the name itself
>("co-driver" rather than just "navigator") gives you a clue. Modern
>rallying is essentially a series of sprints, but up until the 1980s it
>was much more of an endurance event, with longer events (the RAC Rally
>lasted 5 days for years), far longer distances on the open road between
>stages and very little sleep for the crews. So the co-driver would
>drive the car on the road sections while the driver got some sleep.

But do the co-drivers today get to drive as well?  Is Dakar considered
rally?  I remember seeing Dakar, but there wasn't a lot of turning
etc.  And in that race, the co-driver seemed like he wasn't needed at
all.  

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