rec.autos.simulators

 Just read alittle bit of info that made me happy.Its about a letter
being sent to Randy Cassidy of Papyrus.

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

  It mentions something about the patch fixing the lowrider bug in
GPL.This is great (if its true)since I am getting an ASDL line in a
month and wanna get into VROC's "Nail That Track" series.From what I
could understand,it seems as though Papyrus will add vibrations when
contacting the bump ***s.This will even out online racing and still
allow people to do lowrider hotlaps offline.Also mentions something
about papyrus wanting to do a modern F1sim!!Please dont bypass Cart
racing in order to do the F1 sim though:))

Skeeter

I would like to add one thing.  What about making -5 toe in at front and +5
toe in at back actually realistic.  My top speed isn't modified and it
handles much better than before.  I can drop 1-2 seconds at watkins glen
running this setup.

Jesse

| Just read alittle bit of info that made me happy.Its about a letter
|being sent to Randy Cassidy of Papyrus.
|
|http://www.racesimcentral.net/
|
|  It mentions something about the patch fixing the lowrider bug in
|GPL.This is great (if its true)since I am getting an ASDL line in a
|month and wanna get into VROC's "Nail That Track" series.From what I
|could understand,it seems as though Papyrus will add vibrations when
|contacting the bump ***s.This will even out online racing and still
|allow people to do lowrider hotlaps offline.Also mentions something
|about papyrus wanting to do a modern F1sim!!Please dont bypass Cart
|racing in order to do the F1 sim though:))
|
|Skeeter

Well, we'll see when it hits the streets.

But they could've *avoided* the damn lowrider *bug* if they just made
the SRH minimum 2 inches and the bump *** minimum 1 inch!!!

Too late now, me thinks...

--Dave

--
Dave Schwabe
The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~schwabe

  1" ride height does not imply that the car is riding on the bump ***s.
that would be the distance between the undercarraige and the ground.
Theoretically you could have the "tub" sitting on the ground and still have
LOTS of clearance between the suspension, and the bump ***.

JMO
TK

...
Why on earth a letter to me would be posted on the Internet is a bit
beyond me.

...
I have made no such statement publicly, or privately.

Randy Cassidy
Technical Lead, GPL

Yep, totally true... that's a point many people often miss.

Bump rubbbers *really* exist to keep the shock from bottoming out in its
travel, which does bad things to the shock. But in *reality* you don't
want the car bottoming all the time, so the ride height and bump ***
have a a better correlation.

I guess what the GPL creators (and obviously N3) wanted to do in
hindsight was make it *impractical* to run those 1" ride heights because
they are not *realistic* to the real world.

I guess that was the only point I had to make. :-)

Thanks for the input! :-)

-_Dave

--
Dave Schwabe
The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~schwabe

Skeeter...

Just wanted to clarify a couple of things for you...

First, while NTT races are available via VROC's Password Room, we have no
affiliation with the fine folks at VROC. In addition, participation in NTT
events *doesn't* require the use of VROC. So whether you're a Netscape
Navigator or an Internet Explorer user, we have the online racing answer for
you!

When you register for a NTT event, you receive an NTT server IP address and
password, allowing you to make a direct connection from your GPL Multiplayer
screen, avoiding the overhead of Netscape or any other program.

Secondly, there's no need to wait for your ADSL connection! While all of our
servers utilize high-speed digital connections, many of our drivers use
standard, dial-up analog lines and enjoy excellent connections.

But, the biggest advantages that NTT offers are a regular schedule of
quality
events, top-notch connections, superb fields, and the absence of
irresponsible, discourteous drivers.

Check out the RAS post entitled "'Nail That Track' Race Registration
Procedure" for a schedule of upcoming NTT events and details on how to
register for events.

To get a feel for the quality of the NTT events, do a search on "Nail That
Track" or "NTT" in RAS, or take a look at the "News" section of The APEX
(http://gpl.gamestats.com/ ).

Hope to see you at the track!

Jack Rambo

Don't you love people making up what you say and using your name to promote
their site and league?

Jesse

|>  Just read alittle bit of info that made me happy.Its about a letter
|> being sent to Randy Cassidy of Papyrus.
|...
|Why on earth a letter to me would be posted on the Internet is a bit
|beyond me.
|
|>   It mentions something about the patch fixing the lowrider bug in
|> GPL.
|...
|I have made no such statement publicly, or privately.
|
|Randy Cassidy
|Technical Lead, GPL
|

On Fri, 12 Mar 1999 06:50:28 -0500, "Wosco"

  I never looked into the toe in settings before since I thought they
put it there just for looks:))Remember CPR,with its ridiculous amount
of car setup variables?The car model was so bad and they expected
people to believe that all the settings in the garage actualy did
something.At least GPL models the fact more rear toe in and the car is
stable on accelerating and that front toetoein or toeout actually fix
corner entry handling problems and straight line stability.

Message to race car simulation developers,only put what is actually
being modeled in the setup screens.This way were not tuning options
that dont have any effect on the speed and handling of the cars.This
takes away from my immersion in the sim when this happens.

  I find GPL's driving model to be superb and I love blasting around
the tracks controlling when and where the weight transfers.Its
completly ***ting!!But I find many things wrong when I go into the
garage I find many of the settings dont work the way they should.I
posted this before and Ill say it again.It would be great if someone
were to write a setup guide for GPL that correlates perfectly with how
much the variables are actually modeled.The fact that high speed bumps
are not modeled and that dynamic camber change and roll center change
with roll is not modeled causes many of the garage variables to not
work the way they are suppose to.So please tell us how much they are
modled.

  For example **front Toein**--add toein to stabalize the chassis on
the straights or toe out to help with turn-in.GPL doesnt YET model
the drag that excess toe will cause so dont worry about speed with
this setting.

.I find it silly ,and unfair that some people who dont know that toein
has no effect on speed,will dial most of it out for higher top
end.Race someone on the net and if the person knows all the little
quirks of the garage,theyll have an advantage.Just look at the top
hotlapper's setups.

  Please all you people that love GPL,dont flame me for writing this.I
just feel that it would be much better to tell us what the garage
settings actually do so we ALL can pull maximum performance out of the
cars

Skeeter.

    That still didn't answer his original question.  IN GPL ect..ect..ect..
The answer you gave is a true answer but... what about in GPL?

--
=========================================
Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing?
MikeBa on the TEN network.
Member of R.O.R. 1999
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~marknjess/noflame.html
=========================================
Racing online with the help of......

Race Communications Association
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Holodyne Engineering

Mystic Music

mikeba.vcf < 1K Download

I am surprised to hear this.  I dialed out toe-in for the long straight
on Kyalami and I thought it decreased my laptimes.  I guess It
was just psychological(?)

rob.

<snip>

 I have been reading up on this topic and I have come to agrre with
this statement you made.Say a tire has 10in of travel before the
spring compresses completely and the shock inside it hits its bump
***.Lowering the car to 1in ride height does not shorten this
amount of movement that the tire has before it bottoms on the bump
***.So all these lowrider guys(me included)are actually scraping
the chassis's onto the pavement but it seems GPL doesnt model this
happening.Just applying the brakes when you have super soft springs up
front and a 1in ride height will slam the nose into the ground and
cause a spark parade.Doesnt happen in GPL.All Papy has to do to
prevent people from using lowrider setups is to model the
undercarriage scraping on the ground correctly.I use about 3.75in ride
height to prevent the chassis from bottoming at the Ring but I find
the car is a bear to drive with all the weight transfer
happening.Lower it down to 1in and it handles like glue but its not
realistic because the tub would be scraping all over the place just by
braking and accellerating.Please Papy,if I am 100% correct on this,fix
the tub/ground model in the patch.

  I know this has nothing  to do with motorsports but it does have to
do with realism in simulations in general.  The flight sim Warbirds
(its free for download) has an outstanding flight model and has gotten
the Gold Award from PC Testpilot-----www.pctestpilot.com-----This
website is run by real pilots who put the various flight sims to the
test for realism in flight model.I have been following Warbirds for
yrs and love the way its flight model and physics is constantly being
worked on.The constant revisions being done to its physics has brought
this beautiful sim to unparralled realism in flight models IMO.In its
newest revision to be avaiable for download soon,it will feature
analog controlled brakes and better ground modeling for improved take
offs and landings.Better gunnery(things such as bullet drag being
added and dispersion being improved upon)model and the usual upgrade
of a plane or two.I only bring this up because I feel that Papy should
improve the tub/ground model and include it in the upcoming patch.I
dont expect Papy to continually improve upon GPL1's physics as
Warbirds does since the makers of Warbirds make their money from its
online only gameplay andso have to keep it cutting edge.Papy on the
otherhand will improve the physics model in every new GPL that they
put out.I only hope its alot since modern racing doesnt allow the
massive drifts and slides  that GPL's cars do

Skeeter.

rob heeft geschreven in bericht ...

You shouldn't look at laptimes but at the topspeed (replays).

regards,

Harald

Whilst providing better turn-in etc, running extreame measures of Toe
also increases tire temps - especially on the scrub side. It's a nice
cure for getting the fronts to heat up, but I think GPl models this a
smidgeon weakly. Running 0.500 Toe Out at the front would make the car
very vulnerable to bumps and unevenness in the track surface, and it
should be more of a handful during braking.
Having said that; it's still hats of to Mr.Kaemmer and Papy, their
achievement is truly mindboggeling!!

When it comes to the setup part of GPL; I don't think anybody of us
would have enjoyed "more realistic" options - we would have been stuck
with Anti-roll bars, tire temps and maybe a few gear ratios. It's much
more challenging to have all these options, and as for the low-rider
parade; I don't go much faster just because I lower the car another 1/2
".

Then again, I've ruined so many cars, engines and human lives to get to
my best laps, realism has vaned a tad:-)

What I would love to see was a modification on the sound, so that there
would be a different sound when off the throttle. Just listening to a
DFV crackling whilst braking makes the hairs stand out on my neck!
Also, I'd just love a lumpy idle! (remember REVS had this!)

From real-life racecar experience, the sound when you're on the brakes
is unbeliveable; the straight-cut gears whining, pops & crackles from
the exhaust, the engine hesitates and misfires before you get back on
it..and 8-0

I MISS SUMMER!!!!!!

My 2 cents:)

Matt

--
-----------------------------------------
Matthew Knutsen

"The Art of Legends" - GPL add-ons
www.cheekracing.electra.no/GPL/simrace1.htm
-----------------------------------------

That is funny since I have seen a Brabham BT24 that is now used for Solo ll
and it was maybe 2" off the ground.  The only change this car had was a
Cosworth 2 liter motor since it was now a Formula A.  If the tub is not
bottoming to a point where car is undriveable.  I have found that a 1" ride
height does not really suit me all that well but if I have another 1/2" of
travel the car seems to work very well at least for me.  Addtionally My
Corolla which is setup for racing is only 2.5 inches off the ground.

Dave