rec.autos.simulators

        Slow down much sooner.  Roll on and then off the brake, Don't spike it
and swing the back end around.

        Drive the car slowly, or at highway speeds.  Then with every lap go a
little faster.  Sooner or later you'll find your limit.  Then adjust the
setup for your driving style.  As time goes on, you'll get faster and
faster.

        BTW: all the lap times you read about have been from guys that have had
the Sim a whole lot longer then you have. So, don't expect to brake any
lap records for quite some time.  Relax and it'll come to you.
--
=========================================
Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing?
=========================================
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Racing online with the help of......

Race Communications Association
Holodyne Engineering
Mystic Music
(have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

Be sure to try the Coventry if you haven't yet.  Not the fastest car in the
game, but lots of fun, and definitely the one you want if you're having that
much trouble.

Hi all, I have spent about 5 hours on the GPL demo. So far i still haven't
been able to finish a lap without spinning out. My question is, how the hell
do I get the god damn car to not jump sideways on me under braking and when i
am in 1st/2nd and 3rd gear. I am having a tough time with that, any setups or
tips will be helpful

Like Mike said, it takes time. I've been playing for over a year now and
have just figured out how the Lotus likes to be driven.

Hi Cossie,

First off, N2 it ain't.  No slamming on the brake and
gas - you have to be gentle with the car.  At first,
try to only push the brake about 1/2 way down.
It's really hard to brake and turn at the same time,
so try to brake only in a straight line.

Honestly, your biggest problem is low frame
rate, based on your other posts.  Things happen
way too fast in GPL to drive at 13 fps.  Sorry
to tell you, but for the price of the PIII 300,
you could have gotten a Celeron and Voodoo 3,
and been able to crank up the graphics and
resolution with 36 fps.

As someone else said, lower the 1st, second
and 3rd gear ratios to reduce wheels spin when
accelerating, and go easy on the brake.

You have to drive slow in GPL to go fast :)

--
Pat Dotson

You've got to tune your senses into the sense of speed and traction.
Don't use full throttle in the first 3 gears, you can even spin the tires
in 5th some places.  Pay close attention to the tire skid sound, when you hear
it, back off.  If your on the brakes when you turn into a corner your back end
will come around, so for now, get completely off the brakes before you start
turning in.  Also, in the car setup page you can move a greater percentage of
the brake bias to the front, say 57-60%, this will make the car less likely to
come around under braking.
--
Don Scurlock
Vancouver,B.C.

snipped

All of the comments you've gotten so far are useful.  And while we're at it,
what kind of controller do you use?

Kurt

Firstly, You don't say what your system is? or what controller you are
using? Both can have a significant effect on how well GPL reacts to your
inputs. On an old slow system giving slow fps it will be very hard to
control the GPL cars consistently, due to the lack of up to date
feedback from the on-screen graphics. Likewise, if you are using the
keyboard or some other (digital) controller such as a joystick or
gamepad, it will be almost impossible to control the cars well. You need
a fairly fast system and an analogue controller (ideally, although
not essentially, a wheel and pedals) for GPL.

Secondly, GPL is *very* hard to master. But don't be put off by this.
You can do it, it just takes a fair bit of practice. I've had GPL since
the day after the first demo came out on the net, I drive it almost
every day, and I'm still not very good (compared to lots of others).
You need to stick with one car, (you may be better off using the F3
or F2 cars at first? as the F1 cars are harder to drive) and one track
(not sure how many cars/tracks you get with the latest demos, so this
may not be an issue?) and keep practising. You will (eventually) get
faster. Once you have mastered the basics you can then try other cars
and other tracks (if possible in the demo?)

To be honest, five hours is actually not that long! I dread to think how
many hundreds (and it is almost certainly thousands?) of hours I have
sat behind this wheel at my desk!!! (How long has GPL been out now,
since the first demo?)

Thirdly, SLOW DOWN! It may sound strange to say that. But you are almost
certainly driving too fast, and thats why you are spinning off. You need
to drive slowly, with the aim of just staying on the track, not trying
to break any records at all. Try this for say 10 to 20 laps. because you
are not driving flat out, you will actually *see* the track, the
corners, the trackside scenery, the little sign posts, etc, etc. All
this detail will settle in your brain, and eventually you will learn the
basic layout of the track.

Basic car control is also necessary right from the start. Turn *OFF* all
the driver aids if they are on (auto gears, brakes, etc) It will be
harder to drive (slightly) at first, but very quickly you will become a
better driver. If you have analogue controls, try to be smooth on the
brake and throttle. Do not just stamp on the throttle to go, and stamp
on the brake to stop, GPL requires much more subtle and precise control
than that! Gradually feed in the throttle, gradually come off the
throttle and gently increase pressure on the brakes.

A note worth mentioning here, is to be aware of the type of car you are
trying to drive. A 1967 (Thats *1967*) F1 car, with lots (thats *LOTS*)
of power, puny little thin wheels and tyres with even more puny little
brakes, no aerodynamics, and no downforce. These cars *WERE* very hard
to drive! If you stamp on the throttle to pull off, the car will usually
spin sideways, thats why you need to feed in the throttle. If you stamp
on the brakes will car will usually spin off, thats why you need to
gradually increase pressure on the brakes (and you must brake far
*EARLIER* in GPL due to the age and type of brakes being simulated).

Brake *BEFORE* you get to the corner, not while you are going around
it,. If you brake while turning into a corner you will almost
certainly spin the car, likewise if you accelerate too soon coming
out of the corner, you will also spin the car. Try to hit the apex's and
hold a good racing line while going around the circuit.

After those first ten or twenty laps or so you should be able to
visually drive around the circuit in your head from memory. When you get
to this point (where you know the circuit and you can consistently keep
the car under control and on the track) you can start to think about
going faster.

Phew, still with me? Then we shall continue....

Now that you know the circuit and can handle the car (at slow speeds)
gradually speed up, but slowly! Make a note of an average laptime that
you can manage (while keeping the car on the track without spinning).
Now go out and just try to beat that time, even if it is only by one
hundredth of a second, that is your goal. What you should be doing is
not trying to drive flat out all the time (as is the case in many other
games and sims) you will not drive GPL cars fast like that? You should
be concentrating on keeping the car on the road, if you spin, you lose
time and do not go faster, keeping on the shiny stuff is all important.

To gain speed gradually, note where you are starting to brake the car,
stopping braking, where you are turning in, where you are changing gear,
where you are accelerating from, etc. On each lap that you drive, just
try to brake a *tiny*  bit later as you approach each corner (but still
keep the braking smooth so as not to spin), and try to hold a nice
steady line through the corner, and then try to accelerate out of the
corner (smoothly so as not to spin) a tiny bit earlier, and thus carry
more speed onto the next straight.

You should find that gradually, the laptimes will come down, and you
will be driving a lot smoother. The key is car control, not pure speed.

Let us know how you get on....

8-)

*Peter* -  http://www.cix.co.uk/~peterpc/home.html

5 hours is absloutely nothing in gpl time, I needed months. wich car do you
use? Try the Eagle. If you're new to the game don't spend your time on
finding a good setup, download one at http://www.the-fastlane.com/  or
http://www.theuspits.com/ and check this site:
http://simracing.com/alison/gpl/setup.htm it'll learn you to drive the cars.
I thought I couldn't go any faster untill I read their driving tips section.
It made me drop 3 secs a lap at monza. Be gentle on the throttle and brake
and steering (don't slam any of them, it should take you for example 2
seconds to go from 0% gas to 100% when exiting a slow corner), don't hurry,
and be patient, very patient. You don't learn anything by going to fast and
spinning the car, start of slowly and build up the speed by going faster
every lap. and watch replays from hotlappers but don't try to beat them or
equal them at first.

If you're using the keyboard, get off it immediately...GPL requires careful
modulation of the throttle/brake, and a full on/full off keyboard won't cut
it.  Even a cheap joystick is faster (in fact, Woeger (one of the, if not
THE fastest guy in the world at GPL) uses a stick!)

--
Kirk Lane


ICQ: 28171652
BRT #187

"Yeah you won't find me
I'm going MIA
Tonight I'm leaving
Going MIA
Getting lost in you again
Is better than being known"
                     -Foo Fighters, "MIA"

Set the brake bias further forward.  58% or more should give you more stability
under braking.

Short shift and be very gentle with the trottle. You want to slowly add gas,
don't just jump on the pedal.
Stay away from 1st gear.  On many tracks it's only used / useful at the start of
the race.

As a general rule, start out slowly, just putting around the track.  Over several
laps, slowly increase your speed and throttle use.
Ease into it.....

-Greg

--

Note!
Anti-spam tactics engaged!
Remove the duplicate "g" and "s" before replying.

I am running a P3-500 with 64 megs of RAM and a 1 meg trident video card. I
get about 13fps (I will get a voodoo 3 next week). So far I am able to get
the car up the esses without problem, but the major problem is still with
the way the car handles under braking. Everytime i brake down the
backstretch, car would spin out. and the other problem i have is coming out
of the last corner onto the front straight away. I can get it off the corner
straight, but as power start coming in in 2nd and 3rd, car would get kicked
sideways. Most of the time I approch the first turn with the car sideway.
THat is not the best way to get decent lap times. I am using a NASCAR Pro,
it is okay, but I found the wheel seems to be a little off center, or it
might be the track, who knows. but the front stretch is certainly a #$%^& to
drive on without jumping all over the road

| I am running a P3-500 with 64 megs of RAM and a 1 meg trident video card.
I
| get about 13fps

Yikes no wonder why you're having trouble!

| (I will get a voodoo 3 next week).

This will help a LOT!

| Everytime i brake down the
| backstretch, car would spin out

Another point to remember when braking in addition to being smooth is to not
change down the gears too quickly as this will try to spin you.

--
Cheers,

Robin Lord - Trance DJ & Sim Racer.

http://www.oppositelock.co.uk

Nrburgring and Grand Prix Legends

So far I am able to get
| the car up the esses without problem, but the major problem is still with
| the way the car handles under braking. Everytime i brake down the
| backstretch, car would spin out. and the other problem i have is coming
out
| of the last corner onto the front straight away. I can get it off the
corner
| straight, but as power start coming in in 2nd and 3rd, car would get
kicked
| sideways. Most of the time I approch the first turn with the car sideway.
| THat is not the best way to get decent lap times. I am using a NASCAR Pro,
| it is okay, but I found the wheel seems to be a little off center, or it
| might be the track, who knows. but the front stretch is certainly a #$%^&
to
| drive on without jumping all over the road
|
|
|
| >
| >Firstly, You don't say what your system is? or what controller you are
| >using? Both can have a significant effect on how well GPL reacts to your
| >inputs. On an old slow system giving slow fps it will be very hard to
| >control the GPL cars consistently, due to the lack of up to date
| >feedback from the on-screen graphics. Likewise, if you are using the
| >keyboard or some other (digital) controller such as a joystick or
| >gamepad, it will be almost impossible to control the cars well. You need
| >a fairly fast system and an analogue controller (ideally, although
| >not essentially, a wheel and pedals) for GPL.
| >
| >Secondly, GPL is *very* hard to master. But don't be put off by this.
| >You can do it, it just takes a fair bit of practice. I've had GPL since
| >the day after the first demo came out on the net, I drive it almost
| >every day, and I'm still not very good (compared to lots of others).
| >You need to stick with one car, (you may be better off using the F3
| >or F2 cars at first? as the F1 cars are harder to drive) and one track
| >(not sure how many cars/tracks you get with the latest demos, so this
| >may not be an issue?) and keep practising. You will (eventually) get
| >faster. Once you have mastered the basics you can then try other cars
| >and other tracks (if possible in the demo?)
| >
| >To be honest, five hours is actually not that long! I dread to think how
| >many hundreds (and it is almost certainly thousands?) of hours I have
| >sat behind this wheel at my desk!!! (How long has GPL been out now,
| >since the first demo?)
| >
| >Thirdly, SLOW DOWN! It may sound strange to say that. But you are almost
| >certainly driving too fast, and thats why you are spinning off. You need
| >to drive slowly, with the aim of just staying on the track, not trying
| >to break any records at all. Try this for say 10 to 20 laps. because you
| >are not driving flat out, you will actually *see* the track, the
| >corners, the trackside scenery, the little sign posts, etc, etc. All
| >this detail will settle in your brain, and eventually you will learn the
| >basic layout of the track.
| >
| >Basic car control is also necessary right from the start. Turn *OFF* all
| >the driver aids if they are on (auto gears, brakes, etc) It will be
| >harder to drive (slightly) at first, but very quickly you will become a
| >better driver. If you have analogue controls, try to be smooth on the
| >brake and throttle. Do not just stamp on the throttle to go, and stamp
| >on the brake to stop, GPL requires much more subtle and precise control
| >than that! Gradually feed in the throttle, gradually come off the
| >throttle and gently increase pressure on the brakes.
| >
| >A note worth mentioning here, is to be aware of the type of car you are
| >trying to drive. A 1967 (Thats *1967*) F1 car, with lots (thats *LOTS*)
| >of power, puny little thin wheels and tyres with even more puny little
| >brakes, no aerodynamics, and no downforce. These cars *WERE* very hard
| >to drive! If you stamp on the throttle to pull off, the car will usually
| >spin sideways, thats why you need to feed in the throttle. If you stamp
| >on the brakes will car will usually spin off, thats why you need to
| >gradually increase pressure on the brakes (and you must brake far
| >*EARLIER* in GPL due to the age and type of brakes being simulated).
| >
| >Brake *BEFORE* you get to the corner, not while you are going around
| >it,. If you brake while turning into a corner you will almost
| >certainly spin the car, likewise if you accelerate too soon coming
| >out of the corner, you will also spin the car. Try to hit the apex's and
| >hold a good racing line while going around the circuit.
| >
| >After those first ten or twenty laps or so you should be able to
| >visually drive around the circuit in your head from memory. When you get
| >to this point (where you know the circuit and you can consistently keep
| >the car under control and on the track) you can start to think about
| >going faster.
| >
| >Phew, still with me? Then we shall continue....
| >
| >Now that you know the circuit and can handle the car (at slow speeds)
| >gradually speed up, but slowly! Make a note of an average laptime that
| >you can manage (while keeping the car on the track without spinning).
| >Now go out and just try to beat that time, even if it is only by one
| >hundredth of a second, that is your goal. What you should be doing is
| >not trying to drive flat out all the time (as is the case in many other
| >games and sims) you will not drive GPL cars fast like that? You should
| >be concentrating on keeping the car on the road, if you spin, you lose
| >time and do not go faster, keeping on the shiny stuff is all important.
| >
| >To gain speed gradually, note where you are starting to brake the car,
| >stopping braking, where you are turning in, where you are changing gear,
| >where you are accelerating from, etc. On each lap that you drive, just
| >try to brake a *tiny*  bit later as you approach each corner (but still
| >keep the braking smooth so as not to spin), and try to hold a nice
| >steady line through the corner, and then try to accelerate out of the
| >corner (smoothly so as not to spin) a tiny bit earlier, and thus carry
| >more speed onto the next straight.
| >
| >You should find that gradually, the laptimes will come down, and you
| >will be driving a lot smoother. The key is car control, not pure speed.
| >
| >Let us know how you get on....
| >
| >8-)
| >
| >*Peter* -  http://www.cix.co.uk/~peterpc/home.html
|
|

Doesn't more front brake bias lock up the brakes easier and make your rear
end lighter? In turn that spins you out?

yeeehaw. After 6 hours of practice, I finally finished my 1st lap without
spinning in the GPL demo at Watkins Glen. My time was 1:12:09 or something
(In a Eagle w/ a NASCAR Pro wheel, P3-500, 64 megs of RAM, 1 meg trident
car). I know this time is probably bad, but i was just happy to finish a lap
in this game without cutting grass. Thanks to those who gave me tips on
braking and tires spinning. I was able to finish the lap because you guys
gave me tips on braking earlier and never use 100% brakes. (At Skip Barber,
they taught me to jam on the brakes 100% down the straight...)  As for the
tire spin, I made it better by lowering my gear ratios. The gears in the car
was real messed up when I made that lap, but at least I got to finish A lap.

Just got a few more questions before I go out and buy a real video card and
the game itself next week

1. When you run the car off road on and off the banking, does it hurt the
suspension if you didn't touch the wall?

2. At what RPM should I shift in the Eagle?

3. The GPL cars aren't turbocharged are they? It seems they are because they
have no power below 4K, but after that all I can do is hold on

4. What kind of laps times do you guys do at Glen? I need a target...

5. In the game, everytime I down or upshift, the RPM seems to skyrock to
10800 RPM, is there anyway to eliminate that? I want to eliminate that
because it gives a lot of wheel spin between 1st/2nd and 2nd/3rd. If I ever
shift in a fast corner with clutches like that, i am a dead meat... Also
shifting like that is probably bad for the clutch (not like it matters in
the game)