rec.autos.simulators

If it is a fixed setup race, I can race, and win, with anyone.

But if it is an open setup race, I am continually getting my ass kicked.
And then handed to me.  In a 30 car race, I'm lucky to qualify inside the
top 20.

I tell ya, sometimes I can't even stay in the draft sometimes I'm so slow.

This all started with NR2002 and the new Tire/Aero packages they
incorporated, which I believe followed the Nascar rules at the beginning of
the year.

This really bothers me because prior to NR2002, I could run with any group
of racers, and had just as much of a chance to win as anyone else at the
track.  During the TEN days, I had like 60+ wins at Dega, and from the days
of Hawaii through now, including offline, I've logged over 30,000 laps at
these tracks.

Until NR2002, finishing out of the top 5 or maybe 10 was unheard of for me
unless I was taken out.

What the HELL am I doing wrong now?

Is there something 'Secret' or some sort of setup goofyness that I don't
know about with the setups for NR2002 that everyone else does know?

It's not a skill thing.  Let's face it, it doesn't take a rocket scientist
to get around these two tracks.  The lines are well entrenched and even if
you do vary the line a bit, it won't result in this sort of ass-kickage.
The sim just doesn't model the line that well to make THAT much of a
difference.

No, it's either something I'm doing wrong in the setup, or there is a
'trick' to the setup that I don't know about.  Something goofy that doesn't
make sense in real life, but that others have discovered that I havent.

I don't think it can be any of the following:

Tape - This is a fairly static setting.  At one setting you blow up, at the
other you don't.  It's not hard to find the right one.

Tire Pressure - Everyone runs 60psi all around here.

Camber - You set the left edges for +10deg compared to the right edges.  No
magic here.

Spoiler - Can't change it, so it's not the problem.

Weight - It could be this, but I don't think so.  You set the car up to get
around the corner without pushing or being too lose.  No big deal here.  I
tend to find neutral, then go one click loose.

Springs - Again, could be but I don't think so.  You set the front as low as
possible without bottoming out.

So, what does that leave?

Gearing?  If you are truly competitive every race, what is the FINAL RATIO
you are running.  Not the rear-end ratio, but the overall final ratio
established by setting 4th gear AND the rear-end ratio?

Caster?  If you are truly competitive every race, what are your left/right
Caster settings?

Ride Height?  I've heard rumors that the Ride Height doesn't follow logical
physics.  Logic dictates that you keep the car as low as possible.  I've
heard that there is an illogical 'secret' when it comes to ride height, but
I don't know what it is.

Finally, how the hell are some guys able to, consistently, beat everyone
else by sometimes 2 seconds on qual times?  What do they know (or do) that
the rest of us don't?  I've tried the 'toss-the-first-lap' method and
various other lines, and it just doesn't seem to make a difference.

I know there are people cheating online, but I don't think this accounts for
all of it.  And even then, I wouldn't think that cheats would come into play
until the tires have some laps on them.  Everyone is on equally fresh tires
at the start.

Finally, is there a place that has QUALITY setups available?  I firmly
believe that most setups online are crippled in one setting or another on
purpose.  I've tried Doug Arnao's setups, but man that guy likes his race
car LOOSE!

If I could find a Race and Qual setup for Daytona and Dega that were truly
top-notch, I'd be in heaven.  The rest of the tracks I can compete just fine
at and my setups are working ok for me.

TIA!

-Larry

"Larry"

         That is the big secret I've heard too.   Perhaps dloading some
others setups to compare with yours you might find out what the Plateheads
know.
dave henrie

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Max the camber out no matter what the temps. Minimizing rolling resistance
is the key here.

No real big secret (I guess unless you don't know about it, heheh). Just
raise the nose as high as it goes. It seems that they didn't model the
airflow drag under the nose. So, the thinking is that raising the nose
changes the angle of the rear spoiler, reducing drag a little. It might even
cause the roof to cast a bigger aero "shadow" reducing drag on the spoiler.
Dunno exactly what they model in the game, heheh. Either way, the reduced
drag isn't countered by the extra drag you should get at the front by
raising the nose.

The other "trick" you missed is setting the Track Bar to 14/7. Dunno why the
max reverse setting works, but you get a little more straight line speed out
of it.

Try here: http://www.sportplanet.com/team-lightspeed/
On the main page they have a "setup exchange". Although, if Doug's setups
are too loose for you, I'm thinking you won't much care for Bob Stanley's,
heheh (...and know that Bob's setups were made during the beta and haven't
been updated since). But if you go to their forums, in the NR2002 Setups
section, many people post setups and info for pretty much all the tracks.
Just do a search for the track you are interested in. IMO the best site for
all things NR2002. Well, after The Pits of course! ;)

db

I can create a good setup based on PROPER knowledge just fine.  The problem
is, there is something else going on here that isn't proper about how the
car is reacting to some setup item somewhere, and that I believe is the
secret to this whole thing.

-Larry

When you say raise the nose, are you talking just with the ride height, or
crank the springs up all the way as well ?

-Larry

Disclaimer - In no way am I a Plate Track expert. These are just things that
I've noticed work and are in pretty much every SS setup I've seen (which
isn't all that many, heheh).

db

I'll try cranking the front up as far as it will go, and I guess the rear
down as far as it will go.

That's a start :)

-Larry