rec.autos.simulators

I'm taking the correct line into corners, but at this point
I don't even know how to alter my driving style to improve
the time. I can't believe car setup can gain you 5 seconds,
so I really think it's the way I'm driving. Doing endless
practice laps is all very well, but I need some practical
suggestions on what to work on.

I'd like to race online, but it's pointless at the moment
as the other cars leave me in the dust.

--
Cpl Hicks.

Hi Hicks :)

Well, braking later (or trail braking) gains you a lot less than taking a
proper exit from a corner... your top speeds on the straights will increase,
and it'll affect your lap times more than staying off the brakes for another
split second. And proper exit of course means proper entry, which is easier
to do if you brake early enough and avoid lock ups :)

That's the theoretical part, putting it in practice is another thing ;)

- Igor -

What I like to do is load the baseline replays that come with the game
and compare them to my best lap, looking for places where I'm losing
the most time.

I remember being stuck around 1:34 before getting down in the
1:29-1:30 range but honestly I can't remember what I did besides
looking at the telemetry in GPLRA.  Basically just looking at the time
interval and velocity graphs you should be able to figure quite a bit
out, at least as far as getting into the 1:30 range goes.  IIRC I was
braking way too early for one of the turns, taking the wrong line, and
losing several seconds at just that one corner.   YMMV.

Jason

Ok... let's see you drive. Post a replay of an average "good" lap (where you
don't make any large mistakes) somewhere or send it to jan *dot* verschueren
*at* pandora *dot* be.  I'll have a look at it over the weekend and try to
point you in the right direction.

You're right in saying no setup will gain you 5 seconds and you'll have to
adapt your driving, but, on the other hand, I find at Silverstone the setup
does have to suit your style more than at other tracks.

Jan.
=---

John

In a 'normal' corner, messing up the corner entry isn't
necessarily ruining the exit because you spend enough time
in the turn allowing you to adjust your speed and line
to get a good exit even if the entry is to slow.

But the fast shallow corners are very different: it is
absolutely mandatory to have a good entry to get a
good exit because you can't get any lost speed back.
And if a fast corner exits into a long straight, a
slow exit is _very_ bad for your times.

In the case of fast shallow corners, a good entry means
bringing as much speed as possible through the apex
while still allowing for maximum acceleration out of
the corner.

Which implies:

- You have to use all of the track when turning into the
  corner (if you aren't, you can't go in as fast since
  you will turn with a shorter turn radius)
- You have to make a very fast turn in (if you aren't,
  you will not use all of the track efficiently for
  turning)
- You have to time the turn in exactly (since the turn
  in is fast you will miss the apex completely otherwise)
- You have to be on the limit _all_ the way through the
  corner (not just from the apex and out)

All of these are *** their own, and doing it all
together is even harder, which is why getting faster at
Silverstone is so much fun :-)

At Silverstone, this technique is most important at
Chapel and Abbey because they are both fast, shallow
and exit into long straights. After them comes Maggots
(fast and shallow but exiting into a shorter straight)
and Woodcote (fast and exiting into a long straight but
not as shallow).

(Also note that a fast turn in going directly to the
limit implies a late turn in. Especially at Chapel
it took me a long time to realize how late the turn
in needed to be. Maybe the racing groove is turning
in to early there.)

From my own driving, I can say that it is very easy to
adapt a style where you do safe corner entrys, using
a rather slow turn in and staying below the limit.
(A kind of "drive in, adjust and race out" style.)
This probably isn't even wrong with 'normal' corners
because it is going to make you a lot more consistent
while only sacrificing a small amount of time into
the corners. But the point is that this technique
just won't do it in fast shallow corners because you
have nowhere to get back the speed lost in the entry
when moving on to the exit, resulting in a lower
exit speed which is orders of magnitude worse than
a slow entry.

      _
Mats Lofkvist

If you don't slide the car and instead drive a tidy line, this will be slow. Guess you
already know that :)

Good luck,
Keith.

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Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
My .sig file is in the shop for repairs...

Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

<snip>
<snip>

If you are going at the limit, and still can't get below 1.34, I think your
line is wrong. You may be turning in too early, therby getting lousy exits.
Lousy exits seriously hurts lap times.

My usual tip is to use 3rd, 4rth and 5th gear only. I have found that if I
choose a low gear, I am more reluctant to apply gas at corner exits, as the
risk of spinning is high. By using a higher gear, I am able to get on the
throttle earlier, hence increasing exit speeds.

Try the Ferrari or the Cooper (Coventry) at Silverstone. Those cars are easy
to drive, and very capable of doing sub 1.34.

Jon Andersen

<snip>

A very easy way to avoid that, without messing around doing the
really difficult things like setting the car up better <g> is to do
something approaching cadence braking - ie, don't just slam your foot
on the brake and leave it there, but do brake - off - brake - off
etc. You'll stop just as quickly - actually, slightly sooner -
without all that tyre smoke. (I'm assuming you're using a steering
wheel here, of course.)

<snip>

Don't try to ape the AI cars - their physics model is different to
human drivers'. The Parabolica at Monza is a case in point - if you
try following the AI's line, you'll crash every time.

Here are a few specific points that helped me - they may be useless
for you, of course:

* Slide, slide, slide! Use an oversteery setup (Roland Ehnstr?m's
Ferrari one is my favourite) and make the most of it - even in the
slower corners, I'm facing into the inside wall quite a bit of the
way around the bend.

* Don't drive the Lotus. It's very fast, but horribly twitchy. The
Ferrari, as on most tracks, is the best compromise between speed and
control, with the Cooper (Coventry) also pleasant to drive but a fair
bit slower.

* Cadence braking - see above.

* GPL Replay Analyser (as mentioned elsewhere in this thread) is by
far the best analytical utility available. You say you "believe" the
slow corners are where you're losing time - GPLRA will give you the
cold hard facts on that.

* Maggotts is considerably faster than it looks - with the Ehnstr?m
setup mentioned above, I take it in fourth, with only a lift at the
end of the preceding straight (no braking required). It takes a bit
of courage to do it the first time, as you spend a lot of the way
around at 45 degrees to the racing line, but it does work, and can
gain you a lot of time.

That lot helped me get my (hotlap) times at Silverstone down from the
1:32s to the 1:28s, and you really notice that.

--
"After all, a mere thousand yards... such a harmless little knoll,
really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

The GPL Scrapyard: http://www.btinternet.com/~gplscrapyard

 Then you can 'fly' a camera down to both the fast sweepers at Chapel and
Abbey and watch the replay from there .I find the zoom function especially
good for 'bump' hunting:-)  .. I used it a lot to get to know the layout,
it's like being able to walk the track....
  Just sliding is slow ..
        wish I still had the link to the site that carries the passage Enzo
Ferrari committed to posterity describing Nuvolari 4 wheel drifting through
a corner :-))
Good ole Google
http://www.ddavid.com/formula1/art_of_driving.htm

          It is  really hard to believe that the car is actually gonna do
it, and as they say  'you gotta have faith'  , the way that your 'pre 4
wheel drift' brain dictates you go around the corner is just gonna be
slower... and because the two corners both exit onto long straights, that's
a lot of time, trying to be quicker through the slow corners is more like
the hobby you have while the min work is getting the drift spot on, later
on, as you zone in, the inner kerbs become almost magnetic :-)
                                                                jv

You're gonna help him to find a fast guy Dan? :)

Andre

I suck at GPL, I've had it since it came out. I love it but I'm slower
than... well you know.

Till tonight. Granted I'm not alien class yet but by reading this thread and
*listening* to the advice here I've finally figured out 4 wheel drift. I
just turned a 131 at Silver. My fastest ever. I went from 135-136 to a 131
in 15 laps.

Thanks guys, any other tips besides practice? BTW I did it in a Eagle with
the stock setup and 9 gallons of fuel.

Chuck Keller

www.CKRacing.com
page 76 of the N4 Manual

"A lot of people think racing is about going fast.
                          But it's not.
It's about going just slow enough to stay on the track."  F1RS -

Nice one!!

Now go practice it some more ;-)

Malc.