rec.autos.simulators

by **The Harrison'** » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I have just got back to Sydney from the Australian Grand Prix. I have to say
that was extreamly disapointed with Grand Prix 3 that was running down there
in the Gp Expo Tent. From the reports that I have just read I am extreamly
surprised that people believe this game looked sensational. IMO the game
looked nothing more than Gp2 with higher resolution. Don't get me wrong Gp2
was a great game however it had some problems. From what I saw down in
Melbourne the game had not fixed up some of the problem. One of the most
annoying problems in Gp2 was the Black Flag Problem. That is if you cut a
corner you car then slows down - compared with you being asked to come into
the pits and having a stop go penalty. This Black Flag problem is still
HERE! That is just one example of things that Geoff has not fixed. Yes it
may still be a good game, but not one of the greats. It is not in GPL's
league. I will have a full report up here latter. Now its time for some
Sleep

by **Adam Moor** » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00

How about we all just wait and see what the finished product looks
like, and then we can bag the shit out of it. :)

> I have just got back to Sydney from the Australian Grand Prix. I have to
say
> that was extreamly disapointed with Grand Prix 3 that was running down
there
> in the Gp Expo Tent. From the reports that I have just read I am extreamly
> surprised that people believe this game looked sensational. IMO the game
> looked nothing more than Gp2 with higher resolution. Don't get me wrong
Gp2
> was a great game however it had some problems. From what I saw down in
> Melbourne the game had not fixed up some of the problem. One of the most
> annoying problems in Gp2 was the Black Flag Problem. That is if you cut a
> corner you car then slows down - compared with you being asked to come
into
> the pits and having a stop go penalty. This Black Flag problem is still
> HERE! That is just one example of things that Geoff has not fixed. Yes it
> may still be a good game, but not one of the greats. It is not in GPL's
> league. I will have a full report up here latter. Now its time for some
> Sleep

by **Gregor Vebl** » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00

> I have just got back to Sydney from the Australian Grand Prix. I have to say
> that was extreamly disapointed with Grand Prix 3 that was running down there
> in the Gp Expo Tent. From the reports that I have just read I am extreamly
> surprised that people believe this game looked sensational. IMO the game
> looked nothing more than Gp2 with higher resolution. Don't get me wrong Gp2
> was a great game however it had some problems. From what I saw down in
> Melbourne the game had not fixed up some of the problem. One of the most
> annoying problems in Gp2 was the Black Flag Problem. That is if you cut a
> corner you car then slows down - compared with you being asked to come into
> the pits and having a stop go penalty. This Black Flag problem is still
> HERE! That is just one example of things that Geoff has not fixed. Yes it
> may still be a good game, but not one of the greats. It is not in GPL's
> league. I will have a full report up here latter. Now its time for some
> Sleep

Actually, this problem only occurs if you cut the corner REALLY FAST.
I've never got a black flag by making a driver mistake, only when
deliberately cutting it. And who says that it will be like that in the
final version. I mean, there are at leat two months of development left,
which is a whole lot to add features, as most of the early time is
usually spent on developing the engine. Let's wait and see.

by **Robb** » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I too saw the GP3 demo at the Grand Prix and felt that it was a 'pretty' GP2
but the proof will be in the playing so I am keen to see the end result. It
seemed to run well although the graphics did not appear to be 3D accelerated
(I could be wrong there). The thing that cracked me up was that one of the
PCs got a Protection Fault. Gotta love Microsoft .... Thanks Bill !!!

Ken Legend !!

> I have just got back to Sydney from the Australian Grand Prix. I have to
say
> that was extreamly disapointed with Grand Prix 3 that was running down
there
> in the Gp Expo Tent. From the reports that I have just read I am extreamly
> surprised that people believe this game looked sensational. IMO the game
> looked nothing more than Gp2 with higher resolution. Don't get me wrong
Gp2
> was a great game however it had some problems. From what I saw down in
> Melbourne the game had not fixed up some of the problem. One of the most
> annoying problems in Gp2 was the Black Flag Problem. That is if you cut a
> corner you car then slows down - compared with you being asked to come
into
> the pits and having a stop go penalty. This Black Flag problem is still
> HERE! That is just one example of things that Geoff has not fixed. Yes it
> may still be a good game, but not one of the greats. It is not in GPL's
> league. I will have a full report up here latter. Now its time for some
> Sleep

by **Andre Warring** » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Actually I'm very interested in the opinion from someone who actually
saw GP3 running...
Tell us all about it Allan!

Andre

On Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:25:33 +1100, "Adam Moore"

>How about we all just wait and see what the finished product looks
>like, and then we can bag the shit out of it. :)

by **Denn** » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00

> Actually, this problem only occurs if you cut the corner REALLY FAST.
> I've never got a black flag by making a driver mistake, only when
> deliberately cutting it. And who says that it will be like that in the
> final version. I mean, there are at leat two months of development left,
> which is a whole lot to add features, as most of the early time is
> usually spent on developing the engine. Let's wait and see.

Isn't it stated in the rules of F1 that if you cut corners (chicanes) and gain
a time benefit, you are blackflagged? or was it a 10 sec pitstop? I forget.

Anyway if they are still adding features with only 2 months until release,
don't buy the first one you can get, but wait for the first patch :-) The last
2 months should be testing and bug-fixing only.

Dennis

by **Gregor Vebl** » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00

> > Actually, this problem only occurs if you cut the corner REALLY FAST.
> > I've never got a black flag by making a driver mistake, only when
> > deliberately cutting it. And who says that it will be like that in the
> > final version. I mean, there are at leat two months of development left,
> > which is a whole lot to add features, as most of the early time is
> > usually spent on developing the engine. Let's wait and see.

> Isn't it stated in the rules of F1 that if you cut corners (chicanes) and gain
> a time benefit, you are blackflagged? or was it a 10 sec pitstop? I forget.

> Anyway if they are still adding features with only 2 months until release,
> don't buy the first one you can get, but wait for the first patch :-) The last
> 2 months should be testing and bug-fixing only.

> Dennis

The release is actually almost 4 months away (probably early July,
according to www.simracingnews.com), so 2 months was my estimate on the
development time.

Gregor

by **Phillip McNell** » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I am really looking forward to a report from someone who may judge
someting on its actual presentation.

The chaps that just go off and say fantastic fantastic fantastic every
time a new game comes out are hard to believe after a while. Even GPL
has many things that I woiuld say were blemishes. Nothing is perfect
and its nice tio hear the real scoop on things.

Of particualr interest I'd love to see a real 3D road surface in GP3 -
instead of the perfectly billard-table-flat suface from curb to curb
as Gp1 and GP2 had. The visual quality of the beside-the-track objects
might look nice but the shape of the road surface is fundamental imho.
One of the big things that puts GPL out front atm is its true 3D road
surfaces - imho.

PM

>I have just got back to Sydney from the Australian Grand Prix. I have to say
>that was extreamly disapointed with Grand Prix 3 that was running down there
>in the Gp Expo Tent. From the reports that I have just read I am extreamly
>surprised that people believe this game looked sensational. IMO the game
>looked nothing more than Gp2 with higher resolution. Don't get me wrong Gp2
>was a great game however it had some problems. From what I saw down in
>Melbourne the game had not fixed up some of the problem. One of the most
>annoying problems in Gp2 was the Black Flag Problem. That is if you cut a
>corner you car then slows down - compared with you being asked to come into
>the pits and having a stop go penalty. This Black Flag problem is still
>HERE! That is just one example of things that Geoff has not fixed. Yes it
>may still be a good game, but not one of the greats. It is not in GPL's
>league. I will have a full report up here latter. Now its time for some
>Sleep

by **Dave Henri** » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Not a chance. 2 months left is PANIC TIME. No way are they going to
add features at this date. Whatever they are bringing to the table
should be at least already cooked. They will spend the rest of the time
debugging, and adjusting to balance the gameplay. If they are still
adding features at this date, then I'd feel very safe saying you won't
see GP3 til Xmas at the soonest.
dave henrie

by **Tim Vanhe** » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Hell, I would even buy it if it where the same game as GP2 with hardware
acceleration and those promised weather conditions!

> I have just got back to Sydney from the Australian Grand Prix. I have to
say
> that was extreamly disapointed with Grand Prix 3 that was running down
there
> in the Gp Expo Tent. From the reports that I have just read I am extreamly
> surprised that people believe this game looked sensational. IMO the game
> looked nothing more than Gp2 with higher resolution. Don't get me wrong
Gp2
> was a great game however it had some problems. From what I saw down in
> Melbourne the game had not fixed up some of the problem. One of the most
> annoying problems in Gp2 was the Black Flag Problem. That is if you cut a
> corner you car then slows down - compared with you being asked to come
into
> the pits and having a stop go penalty. This Black Flag problem is still
> HERE! That is just one example of things that Geoff has not fixed. Yes it
> may still be a good game, but not one of the greats. It is not in GPL's
> league. I will have a full report up here latter. Now its time for some
> Sleep

by **Michael E. Carve** » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00

% I have just got back to Sydney from the Australian Grand Prix. I have to say
% that was extreamly disapointed with Grand Prix 3 that was running down there
% in the Gp Expo Tent. From the reports that I have just read I am extreamly
% surprised that people believe this game looked sensational. IMO the game
% looked nothing more than Gp2 with higher resolution. Don't get me wrong Gp2
% was a great game however it had some problems. From what I saw down in
% Melbourne the game had not fixed up some of the problem. One of the most
% annoying problems in Gp2 was the Black Flag Problem. That is if you cut a
% corner you car then slows down - compared with you being asked to come into
% the pits and having a stop go penalty. This Black Flag problem is still
% HERE! That is just one example of things that Geoff has not fixed. Yes it
% may still be a good game, but not one of the greats. It is not in GPL's
% league. I will have a full report up here latter. Now its time for some
% Sleep

Ahhh, these are the things that make it Crammond's Grand Prix simulator.
I think they are signature hooks and are things that we will never see
fixed. Admit it, Geoff is an artist. And any artist worth his salt,
will continue to do the same thing over and over and refuse to change
it. It's their signature and without it, they feel that their "artistic
license" is being taken away from them.

GP's by Geoff will always have these things. He is at times rather
short-sighted when it comes to little things like the one you point out.
And he is also rather short-sighted when it comes to big things like
Internet and multi-player features. But then, he is an artist. So you
either like his art or you don't.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

by **Michael E. Carve** » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00

% Actually, this problem only occurs if you cut the corner REALLY FAST.
% I've never got a black flag by making a driver mistake, only when
% deliberately cutting it. And who says that it will be like that in the
% final version. I mean, there are at leat two months of development left,
% which is a whole lot to add features, as most of the early time is
% usually spent on developing the engine. Let's wait and see.

I don't think that the last few months of development time is used to
make changes. Instead it is used to kill the bugs and optimize the
code. You don't add features at the last minute. Basically the cake
has already been mixed and is just about ready to take out of the oven.
And you don't start adding ingredients at this stage of the process.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

by **Jo Hels** » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00

This is *exactly* how I interprete it. Some things will never change
from F1GP through GP2 through GP15. You'll always instantly recognise
a Crammond game.

And as Michael points out: you either like it or you don't. Crammond's
not going to include pit girls because some bozo likes it or because
the market demands it <G>

Better this than trying to satisfy as many people as possible and
ending up with some common-denominator. After all: Crammond makes his
sims because he's passionate. Don't think he would be very
enthousiastic to work on features that he doesn't care about.

JoH

On Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:24:24 GMT, "Michael E. Carver"

.....

>Ahhh, these are the things that make it Crammond's Grand Prix simulator.
>I think they are signature hooks and are things that we will never see
>fixed. Admit it, Geoff is an artist. And any artist worth his salt,
>will continue to do the same thing over and over and refuse to change
>it. It's their signature and without it, they feel that their "artistic
>license" is being taken away from them.

>GP's by Geoff will always have these things. He is at times rather
>short-sighted when it comes to little things like the one you point out.
>And he is also rather short-sighted when it comes to big things like
>Internet and multi-player features. But then, he is an artist. So you
>either like his art or you don't.

>--
>**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
> Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

by **ymenar** » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Exactly. Same thing could be said for any other artist in the racing
industry. Papyrus has their own signature also, with options and features
which, even if not fully realistic, have been in about every release they
have ever done. Shift-R is the perfect example of this. I personally like
the idea of the Black Flags in Geoff Crammond's series of Formula 1 racing
simulation, and wouldn't mind at all the inclusion of that feature in GP3,
even if I'll probably won't buy it for it's non-usage of TCP/IP multiplayer
online racing.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.WeRace.net
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **Shaun Robinso** » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00

This is to the people who say GP3 isn't GP2 with d3d;
The same shitty black flag system... The same shitty car touches the
wall and slows done physics thingy... (on the long video from a.b.s.a,
the guy rubbed the wall and noticeably slowed down. The same as GP2).
New car physics, its not worth the money or the wait. I must admit it's
good to see all the disappointed post about GP3. To all the arrogant
people blinded by the fact that it's a crammond game, ha ha. I do
believe the names of Cassidy and Kaemmer deserve a hell of a lot more
praising than mr GP2.5

> I have just got back to Sydney from the Australian Grand Prix. I have to say
> that was extreamly disapointed with Grand Prix 3 that was running down there
> in the Gp Expo Tent. From the reports that I have just read I am extreamly
> surprised that people believe this game looked sensational. IMO the game
> looked nothing more than Gp2 with higher resolution. Don't get me wrong Gp2
> was a great game however it had some problems. From what I saw down in
> Melbourne the game had not fixed up some of the problem. One of the most
> annoying problems in Gp2 was the Black Flag Problem. That is if you cut a
> corner you car then slows down - compared with you being asked to come into
> the pits and having a stop go penalty. This Black Flag problem is still
> HERE! That is just one example of things that Geoff has not fixed. Yes it
> may still be a good game, but not one of the greats. It is not in GPL's
> league. I will have a full report up here latter. Now its time for some
> Sleep

rec.autos.simulators

Grand Prix 3 at Melbourne - Still has Problems

Grand Prix 3 at Melbourne - Still has Problems

Grand Prix 3 at Melbourne - Still has Problems

Grand Prix 3 at Melbourne - Still has Problems

Grand Prix 3 at Melbourne - Still has Problems

Grand Prix 3 at Melbourne - Still has Problems

Grand Prix 3 at Melbourne - Still has Problems

Grand Prix 3 at Melbourne - Still has Problems

Grand Prix 3 at Melbourne - Still has Problems

Grand Prix 3 at Melbourne - Still has Problems

Grand Prix 3 at Melbourne - Still has Problems

Grand Prix 3 at Melbourne - Still has Problems

Grand Prix 3 at Melbourne - Still has Problems

Grand Prix 3 at Melbourne - Still has Problems

Grand Prix 3 at Melbourne - Still has Problems

Grand Prix 3 at Melbourne - Still has Problems