rec.autos.simulators

We haven't even seen/tested these games... so why are we beating our heads
against an imaginary wall regarding their performance before we have even
tried them.

Perhaps I'm outta line... but let's grow up fellas....

Let's judge the damn game when it's out....a and not on SSs that are a
neither conclusive or even accurate to the final product....

Cheers,

Shumi
Director of Marketing & Business Development
PDPI

Because there is nothing else to do, seriously...

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Or..... we can play the Sims that ARE out now... seems like an idea for
something to do in the meantime.

Not meant to be brash... just a suggestion is all :)

Cheers,

Shumi

;)    Slot

--
Ian Parker

UKGPL League http://members.xoom.com/ukgpl
==

We are racing well enough to please ourselves be sure of that.  We want to
discuss also.

Well, yes...

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

It didn't bother me (kind of funny actually) as I expected it from r.a.s
(been here for three years  :-)  ) but I was doubted, criticized, mocked,
etc., for just trying to tell people what the full version of RC2000 was
like (beta tester) when people here only had screenshots and interviews, and
then the alpha and beta demos.

No matter what information I gave, it seemed like many (certainly not all)
WANTED RC to be a disappointment. It seems like they want EVERY sim to be a
disappointment.  :-) Whether readers of r.a.s want to believe it or not,
it's the often overwhelming negativity that keeps developers from spending a
lot more time here. How do I know? Because I've beta tested for three
different car sims, and have been told this directly by developers from each
one.

RC2000 is selling like crazy, and most people now agree that it's the best
sim yet. Maybe not at r.a.s where most posters are from N. America and don't
have a copy yet, or are huuuge fans of one particular sim, :-)  but
everywhere else it is the THE auto simulator.

I do hope though that something even better comes along soon and will remain
optimistic until I have the sims on my hard drive and have given them enough
hours of seat time to make a FAIR judgement.

F12000, GP3, and WSC are what I'm anxiously waiting for. :-)

David G Fisher

No we did not want RC to be a disappointment.  It was hyped, we accepted it
and were very enthousiast, until we saw the demo.  And then boom... it was
just a "good" sim.  Which isn't a bad thing notherless.

And it's normal to be negative.  Every title will be looked upon the best on
the market.  Like in the F1 newsgroup, every driver will be compared to the
best one.  Or rassm, any new Star Wars movie will be compared to the Empire
Strikes Back.  Or in the PF newsgroup, everything will be compared to Dark
Side of the Moon.  On movie newsgroup, every movie will be compared to the
best ones.  It is simply normal David.

Most people here will disagree about it being the best sim yet.  The
majority of people here say that GPL is.  Why are you still trying to
convince people with such a lie David ?  The majority of people here have
tried Rc2k, Americans or not.  It is not THE auto simulator, it just the
best Rally Racing sim.  There is no excuse, we have all tried it.  It is
fun, very fun, but best sim? Doesn't even touch the GPL game engine.

You have never answered me about your Rally racing experience, how can you
have a fair judgement ?

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I could of said, "I told you so", but who really cares.

I remember the posts directed my way, and they were VERY, VERY, negative.
Just like they are for every upcoming sim. It's why Schumi started this
thread.

Normal is the same as average and common. Nothing to celebrate there. If the
negativity would stop, this would be a much better newsgroup because
developers would be here a lot more. Notice how developers spend time at the
HG forums? There's negativity there too, but overall it's a better
experience for them.

How about being better than "normal"?

This is where the few people who actually bought GPL hang out on the net and
exchange thoughts, and get their news, on their favorite sim. It's the get
together point on the net for the GPL club. They're bias and have hundreds
(thousands maybe) of hours invested in their baby. They don't want to hear
that something better may be coming, or has arrived. Then all the interest
in their "work" kind of disappears. Simple psychology. No news there. This
topic has been beaten to death.

The last thing I feel the need to do is convince people of anything sim
related. It's just a game. RC2000 is a huge seller (will probably sell 20
times what GPL sold) and being enjoyed by hard core and casual sim fans all
over the world. RAVE reviews everywhere (from sim fans and press) except
within the tiny, few hundred member, GPL club located here at r.a.s.

Oh no. The sadness I feel.

Not sure about that. Demos maybe, but not the full game.

I'm so sick of hearing about the GPL game/physics engine. Big, fat, hairy
deal. It's a car game. No harder/easier/different, than most others I've
played, and I've played it a lot. Just feels like a car game to me. I'd like
to wax poetic about the physics engine but I just don't get that flutter in
my groin that some here do. Still feels like code which manipulates cartoon
images on my monitor. Turn the wheel. Brake. Accelerate. Shift. Pass.
Whatever. Never really felt like I was driving a real car. Sorry. Maybe when
I really use my imagination I'm able to forget I'm being more delicate with
my wheel and pedals than when I clip the occasional stray nose hair. I can
run a race in my socks with just the tips of a few fingers of one hand on
the wheel, a Coke in the other hand, laughing at South Park on the TV across
the room when Cartman demands "authoriti!", one eye on my girlfriend's thong
as she walks by, while shooing my cat off the monitor. No beads of sweat in
my eyes or smell of exhaust making me want to puke. No g-forces throwing me
around my chair. No damage to me or my wallet when I crash......so no fear.
Just a game, and lacking in some key areas when compared to RC.

I've driven a rally car (just like the Hyundai in RC) of a friend of a
friend, in Pennsylvania.

Have you ever driven a '67 F1 car? Anyone?

BTW, I was watching Speedvision recently and they were showing late '50's F1
cars. For some reason, just like the late '60's F1 footage I've seen, the
car's rear ends weren't swerving all over the track. Actually looked very
smooth and in control. Hmmm.

David G Fisher

As long as there is a replay, whatever changes have been made to the .cfg
file can be detected. Here are a couple of sites where drivers can submit
lap times. No changes are allowed to the cfg file.
http://www.leagueplay.net/rchsl/

http://www.activescore.com/rally/

The cars in RC don't pivot around their center either. That is an illusion
created by the chase view camera position and movement. The only cars I know
of that center pivot around turns are the GPL cars at the tight hairpin turn
(?) at Monaco.

David G Fisher

Andre

David: they don't. How come I'm so slow around there, and keep nosing into
the hay at the exit? You must be referring to the AI, and yup, I agree, but
I only race online....

I love GPL; It's the best *racing* sim.
I love RC2000; it's the best *rally* sim.

For me, my passion lies on the track. I relate to that, that' where I race
in real life.
Rally is great, but racing against myself does not bring the kicks like
against a field of others, where you have time to plan ahead, chase,
outpsyche, be outpsyched etc.

If I was a NASCAR *** (I was for a while), I'd be going for N3 I'm sure,
but again, I am a road racer. Now, I carry no grudges with RC, I even forked
out 50 for it, and I don't regret it. Support is good.

BUT, here's the point, finally!
IF the RC2000 sim was released based on, say, 60s or 70s cars; The Mini
Cooper, Renault Alpine, Escort TC (yummy!), I would enjoy it *far* more.It's
a bit too much go-kart now, just like the modern F1 sims. You don't get to
"feel" the car as well, simply because they are so good...massive brakes,
traction, brilliant ride...

One of my fav "Movies" is a production of the 1976 Castrol/Autosport British
Rally Championship. Escort BDA's dancing in the forest, screaming at 10000
RPM; wheels spinning, mud flailing.....and arms all over the***pit.
I'd like to see that in a rally sim, then I'd quit my social life
alltogether!

Matt

Fact is, I would trust the guys here to give me a more honest opinion of
a sim, covering a large enough cross-section, than I would any hype from
one person with a 'vested interest' or any of the current crop of
mags/online e-zines where these 'reviews' appear.
--
Peter Ives - (AKA Ivington)

No person's opinions can be said to be
more correct than another's, because each is
the sole judge of his or her own experience.

That's the point of the thread. Ripping a sim before anyone's had the chance
to even try it.

David G Fisher