rec.autos.simulators

David G Fisher

We all tried it David.

You think the Americans freaks here will wait ? No they all got it from the
Net.  They are not dumb like you think.  Still, a majority of people here
are from Europe, much more than you may think.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Because the physics are too advanced to be modeled in real-time on each and
every AI on the track on today's computers, thus they had to dumb-down the
AI, even if it's one of the best in any racing game we have ever seen.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

But don't let that stop you doing it yet again. GPL, whatever the
strengths and weaknesses of the actual software, has lived a long and
active life on RAS because of the enthusiasm of its users...and enthusiasm
isn't (a) easily earned (b) something to be ashamed of.

Andrew McP... posting for the sake of deja-threaded posterity

Crap! I'm an average GPL player but not an *** and I would love to hear
about something new and better. But there is simply no game with a more
realistic feel on the market for the moment IMO. I'm into sims since GP1 and
despite it's age GPL is still my personal best. I absolutely WANT something
better, I'm willing to give up gpl immediatly for that. I bought (too) many
sims after GPL in the hope for a better simulation but they all ended up in
my shelve.

Correct, I'll shut up.

Andre

I'll try to be ultra clear in everything I say from now on so you won't have
to bother yourself to scold me again.

David G Fisher

I don't really know what your trying to prove here (I followed your posts in
this thread) but please be reasonable: Rally IS inferiour to GPL, point!
It really looks impressive and for sure is in that aspect a next generation
game when compared to GPL but you'll get bored with it after a while (mark my
words: How many R2K related posts will there be next year?) because the
realism as implemented within GPL simply isn't there.  I agree with you that
they are both targeted as being games but the skills you have to acquire in
order to get around in a descent way in GPL are a good approximation of the
skills (e.g. trailbraking) needed to tame those beasts in real life (according
to some people who DID/DO drive race cars for real) which is why it is still
challenging after 1.5 year! With R2K everybody can drive right out of the box
(no, please no flames on that I only like games when they are practically
unplayable because that's not the point I try to make) which I'm for sure you
can't with the real Impreza's and Evo's. I know you won't finish a
championship bumping around because of the damage model but nevertheless it's
almost impossible to get your car wrecked during a stage! This is imho a
serious flaw, I really tried hard to get my car wrecked (hitting almost every
tree which btw caused immediate unrealistic stops) so I couldn't finish but to
no success: the car simply went on. Of course I couldn't have it repaireed for
the next stage but that's not the issue: It simply isn't realistic!!

I don't know what makes you think this newsgroup is GPL-biased. You're simply
wrong here. There's simply no reason for that except for the obvious: It's the
best there is at this moment!!!!
Believe me: GPL didn't appeal to me at all, I was a big fan (still am) of
modern F1 and therefore ***ed to GP2 and later MGPRS2 and didn't like the
era (67) of GPL at all. Once this sim "gets" you however the other car-sims
simply don't have it. 'm eagerly awaiting GP3, WSC and EA F1-2000 and
seriously hope they will be able to conquer GPL (according to the online chat
whith the West brothers WSC has got the most potential).

Jan.

pfffff... BS!
The only cars that pivot around turns that I know of are the AI cars in
N1-2-3, icr1-2, and all the other Papy indycar or nascar sims  when they
recover from a spin.

You fail to understand the difference between 'ripping' a sim product and
skepticism over the hype, yours or anyone's, for a product not yet released.

I remember those threads here with  your devoted defense of RC when the demo
gave no expectation that it's would be the best sim...beyond your promise it
would be so.

r.a.s. is the most knowledgeable and objective single source for information and
opinion on driving simulations. There must be a reason the consensus here is
that GPL is the best.

Marty

Marty

< snipped for brevity >

< snipped for more brevity >

Got to say it David. You don't get it.

It may be your computer/controler setup or your driving ability, or both, but
too may people, myself included, continue to play GPL avidly after a year and a
half, for it's superior (to all other current titles) realistic simulation of
the race driving experience, for your comments above to be anything but
laughable...not to be confused with amusing..

Marty

Too many people? Only sold around 35,000 copies to begin with. How many
people do you think still play it today? Not "too many" I think. If you were
referring to GP2........

Ok Marty. If you actually feel like you are in a '67 F1 car, than
congratulations. You have a much better imagination than I do.

Someone call Schumacher. Marty wants to race.

David G Fisher

You're joking, right?

Once again, this is where the few people who bought GPL, and still play it,
gather to talk about their favorite sim on the internet. Always the same
names. Would have to be the same names considering that GPL only sold 35,000
copies, most of which more than a year ago.

I suggest you occasionally venture outside of this newsgroup and look around
at who, and how many, are playing other sims, and where those people are are
from.

David G Fisher

I don't think it's a joke at all.  Here, at least, the discussion is not
(potentially)corrupted by outside sponsorship, it's not controlled by some
major-domo, and the *general" tone of the discussion (subject to rather
weird bobbles--I've contributed a few, so I know) is rather mature: there's
but a minimal count of "blah blah rulez" and "blah blah sux!"--unlike some
rally forums I know . . . . ;) . . . and indeed some GPL forums I know of as
well.

David G., please direct us to another such encompassiong single source (but
see my note about this "single source" bit below).

First of all, there's no consensus, since that implies that the whole group
(which changes by the day) individual-by-individual *concedes* in an
exercise which has set out explicitly to answer the question.  T'were there
a vote, I think you'd see a predictable outcome, but a vote is not the same
thing as a consensus.

But more broadly, your point about sales is just that: an argument about
sales figures and the market--neither of which, I admit, are very supportive
of a difficult simulation which requires a fair bit of committment to fully
appreciate (and which, nonetheless, is a game, too--that distinction is a
bit tenuous I think).  As an argument about *quality* the argument is
completely illegitimate, since it relies on a quite specious and absolute
kowtow to the wisdom of the Invisible Hand.

The hidden inference is (not to put words in your mouth--but you've made the
argument before) that RAS is some kind of safety zone where GPL-fans can
ignore the rest of the world as it produces more advanced sims like RC2000
(an argument, by the way, which could easily apply to the RC2000 forum at
High Gear).  It continues: here, the narrative goes, GPL fans bury their
heads in the sand and pat each other on the back--funny visual image there,
I admit!--and emerge only to *** daring raids by malcontents like
yourself, David G.  That story, while certainly giving you a heroic status
("David v. Goliath"; McCarthy-ism--insert your own
meta-narrative),*[footnote] and while admirably sophisticated (you ingenous
sociologist, you!) would be convincing except for at least two things:

a) when I sign off RAS, I'll head to the web and check out the RC2000 forum
at High Gear to see if there's anything new I need to know in order to
further enjoy my copy of RC2000; then to the SCGT forum at GT Insider; and
maybe even check out the Unofficial MGPRS2 forum at the Unofficial, for I
still enjoy that game as well (sorry Frank!).  And yes, there are a bunch of
other racing sim/game URLs to visit as well.  I may need help :), but my
myopia is not a *GPL* myopia.  I suspect I'm not alone in this pattern . . .

-and-

2) prior to the arrival of GPL, the forum was heavily dominated by
discussion of MGPRS2, and N2, and etc.  When RC2000 appeared in Europe, it
too began to show up.  And many GPL folks have posted about it--some
positive, some negative then positive, some who still don't like it--JUST as
they have posted about SCGT, MGPRS2, etc.  If another sim generates the
support and critical mass among those "sophisiticated" or "dedicated" enough
to use newsgroups (as opposed to the more user-friendly Web), they too will
have their turn and will be more or less welcomed, since--crucial point
here--in order to generate that support, it's likley they'll be into a
pretty special item.  So far, it doesn't seem that RC2000, despite its
*quite* admirable properties (it's "an excellent game!" to bring up a blast
from the past) is doing that.

This newsgroup distills . . . but distill what?  GPL fans, or fans of that
understandable-but-difficult-to-pin-down quality, "accuracy"--a quality
which is approached, but never, I think we would all admit, fully reached.
This ain't a *** . . .

I suspect that a great many of us, like yourself, do that ALL the time--it's
how RAS is able help newbies with advice (hardware drivers, notices of new
products, etc.)

Now hop on down off that soapbox, bwah!--and i'll do the same.

--David K.

*Indeed, I suspect that it is this self-narrative, rather than RC2000's
qualities, which drives your own appearences.  But that's okay--we all
engage in that sort of thing.