rec.autos.simulators

I'm not sure I agree that war or life are games. (Funny old game, life - it turns out not
to be a game at all). Websters has lots of definitions of "game", into which neither war
nor life seem to fit. These ones seem relevant:
1. an amu***t or pastime: children's games.
3. a competitive activity involving skill, chance, or endurance on the part of two or more
persons who play according to a set of rules, usually for their own amu***t or for that
of spectators.
8. anything resembling a game, as in requiring skill, endurance, or adherence to rules: the
game of diplomacy.
(So no nearer in the search for the meaning of life, then?)

I think they're very similar, it's just that chess is far more complex. My badly made point
was in response to you invalidating BTCC drivers praise of TOCA because they described it
as a game. I was rebuffing that by pointing out that GPL, F1RS and GP2 are also games which
Websters definition 3 substantiates......Motor sport itself fits nicely into that
definition as well, so if a motor sport simulation is not a game it is simulating motor
sport very well.

Great song, great band.

Ok, I back off!

With my social skills I can never have played them - did I offend you? - I didn't intend
it.

And you're right here, too.

Fair go. We agree sims are games then. And they may be useful if you're actually involved
in real motor sport. And it does not invalidate TOCA to describe it as a game, nor does it
mean it's not a sim. And I would go on playing them if my hard disk hadn't had a head
crash. But not if they stopped being fun.

"Fun" is the important word, Paul!
Even hard work can be fun, if the person doing the work does so because
they really like it.

And, "no", you certainly didn't offend me in the least.  I just tend to
sometimes write in a rather terse manner....years of being used to
writing reports where only the factual stuff was considered important.
My apologies for giving you the wrong impression.

% > Actually don't be fooled!  War is a game, it's just a more lethal sport
% > than racing.  As a matter of fact life is a game, please don't be
% > fooled...

While the actual "player pieces" in the game of war probably don't think
it's a game.  It is a game with extreme high stakes none the less.  We
have at least two players engaged in a competition with "rules of
engagement".  This sounds alot like the following definition: "A
competitive activity or sport in which players contend with each other

"War is the statesman's game, the priest's delight,
The lawyer's jest, the hired assassin's trade."
Percy Bysshe Shelley (1792-1822), English poet. Queen Mab, pt. 4.

Those whose livelihood it is to "conduct" war are the real game players.
The fact that war is usually conducted for "just causes" does not mean
it is not a game.  It's a game, just a deadly one.

While life itself may not be a "game", most "players" treat it as such.

% I'm not sure I agree that war or life are games. (Funny old game, life - it turns out not
% to be a game at all). Websters has lots of definitions of "game", into which neither war
% nor life seem to fit. These ones seem relevant:
% 1. an amu***t or pastime: children's games.
% 3. a competitive activity involving skill, chance, or endurance on the part of two or more
% persons who play according to a set of rules, usually for their own amu***t or for that
% of spectators.
% 8. anything resembling a game, as in requiring skill, endurance, or adherence to rules: the
% game of diplomacy.
% (So no nearer in the search for the meaning of life, then?)

% > Checkers is a game and chess is a game. . .  But they are worlds apart.

% I think they're very similar, it's just that chess is far more complex. My badly made point
% was in response to you invalidating BTCC drivers praise of TOCA because they described it
% as a game. I was rebuffing that by pointing out that GPL, F1RS and GP2 are also games which
% Websters definition 3 substantiates......Motor sport itself fits nicely into that
% definition as well, so if a motor sport simulation is not a game it is simulating motor
% sport very well.

And I guess I really should have put in a few ";-)" or "<G>", because I
posted the repsonse with a *large* amount of tongue in cheek.  I just
thought it ironic and quite whimsical that while your quotes were in an
attempt to defend the "reality" of the "sim", the quotes themselves left
open just the opposite possibility.

% >      Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

% Great song, great band.

On that we wholeheartedly agree! :-)

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

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