Tom, you are one of the very few people (you, Robert, and manybe one
other person) that thinks he was railroaded. Like I said, it's not my
job to deal with the controversy - it's my job to make sure everyone
in RASCAR has as pure a racing environment as possible.
I refused his membership for the good and sanity of the group. It
wasn't personal.
Papy said he was. I don't care for whatever political or real reason. He
was. End of story. They don't have to prove it to their customers.
Yeah and there was never trouble with this team on the NROS <roll eyes>
--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://ymenard.cjb.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
<ding ding ding>
<ding ding ding>
--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://ymenard.cjb.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
Gerry
Only the Papyrus & TEN employees involved in 1997, and Robert know what really happened and the last time I checked, Robert was the
only one still around.
Robert hasn't raced online in years and N2003 is no where near as 'hackable' as N1 was, hell that was DOS.
Plus, with all the aids people use online, who that heck could tell anyway.
RASCAR has never 'banned' anyone and if you start now, it will be the beginning of the end imho.
--
Tim White
www.intracmotorsports.com
I can sympatise with both viewpoints, but, in view of the nature of RASCAR
racing, I'd go with innocent until proven guilty, i.e. proven to have
cheated or otherwise misbehaved in a RASCAR race, before going to lenght of
excluding someone. One doesn't have to like a person to race him.
Then again, one more guy blowing my doors off doesn't hurt my pride nearly
as much as it does the contenders'. <g>
Jan.
=---
If anyone wants to cheat, its very easily done.
--
Steve
"In the old days, the Irish used to blow up our pubs, now they refit them tastefully"
The Pub Landlord.
> Only the Papyrus & TEN employees involved in 1997, and Robert know what really happened and the last time I checked, Robert was
the
> only one still around.
> Robert hasn't raced online in years and N2003 is no where near as 'hackable' as N1 was, hell that was DOS.
> Plus, with all the aids people use online, who that heck could tell anyway.
> RASCAR has never 'banned' anyone and if you start now, it will be the beginning of the end imho.
> --
> Tim White
> www.intracmotorsports.com
My dealings at Papyrus were with two individuals only. And, because of the
nature of those dealings no one else at Papyrus probably would have been
involved (until much later had my dealings beared any fruit, which they did
not). So, unless you asked one of those employees about me, I doubt anyone
else even knew me at the time, since I was relatively new to online racing
anyway. Even if you'd asked one of these two individuals, its reasonable
because of NDA's that they would not have told you they knew me. And, who
the hell were you that someone had to respond to your questions about me
anyway?
> This your annual attempt at re-writing sim history? Your stories are
> getting craftier but there's still some left who know better.
> Gavel
PS: "Gavel" is the online racing handle used by Greg Avella. According to
Francois Menard, from his response to an email I had sent him a couple years
ago (November 11, 2001 to be exact) asking who this "gavel" character is,
because I don't remember him at all when I was racing on TEN......."he is an
old pal from my Hawaii days. He ran in a league on TEN as an "also ran" but
spent most of his time in the TEN chat rooms rather than racing." Seems
Greg that you are an old "stir-monger" from way back?
> "Tom Pabst" <tmpa...@attbi.com> wrote in message
> news:t2tJa.61617$hz1.147153@sccrnsc01...
> > Whoa, John!
> > If you are talking about Robert Huggins, then I think you better go do
> some
> > deep research of the issues.....because he was "accused" of cheating
under
> > circumstances that subsequent evidence never supported. At the time,
> > there's enough evidence that he was arbitrarily "kicked off TEN" by
> Papyrus
> > for not so noble reasons.....the excuse was that he was cheating.
Nothing
> > was ever proven. I believe Robert's "response" was something along the
> > lines of "yes, I was cheating online.....but I was hired by Papyrus to
do
> > that in order to prove to them the flaws in their online coding for
NASCAR
> 3
> > (I believe it was N3....not totally sure about that)." He claims to
have
> > had some "political problems" subsequently with several individuals at
> > Papyrus.......and that he was "framed" as a cheater for that reason.
I'm
> > not sure of all of the details.....but my memory isn't too far
> off.....that
> > I am sure of.
> > I also can tell you that at the same time, I was having some problems
with
> > some Papyrus staff as well......but for entirely different and unrelated
> > things. But, these few individuals I had problems with....if they were
> also
> > ones that were involved with Robert's deal.......these guys were not
> beyond
> > doing something like that. I will tell you that I did not sit back and
> take
> > this crap from these people idly......I took it to Havaas.....and within
a
> > month all three of these individuals were mysteriously no longer working
> at
> > Papyrus! I'm not going to rehash old shit......but this occurred just
> after
> > the Huggins deal (by a few months).....so you can figure out the
> connection
> > yourself.
> > I would also like you to research how he has conducted himself since
then,
> > and what he has contributed to this sim community's online racing
software
> > since then. He's a member of Black Hole Motorsports still, (I
> > believe).....and there's enough well respected people on that race team
> that
> > did enough "search and research" to satisfy themselves enough to have
> Robert
> > Huggins join the team (a couple years ago I believe). That, I would
> > think....should carry some weight with you as well. But, you should do
> your
> > own homework, too.
> > Finally, I will state emphatically that I am not friends with Robert
> > Huggins, that I have no ulterior motive for making these statements
about
> > him. I am only making them in the interest of fair play. I think you
are
> > making a mistake, John. That's the only reason I have responded to this
> > post.
> > My regards,
> > Tom Pabst
> > Pabst-Racing.com
> > "John Simmons" <a...@b.c> wrote in message
> > news:MPG.195fcbc2b3deac08989942@news-server.satx.rr.com...
> > > What was the name of that guy a few years ago that was caught
> > > cheating online?
I respect your reasoning for the decision. I just don't agree with it.
But, that's neither here nor there. I at least wanted to make sure you
weren't making the decision without reasonable knowledge. I would like to
point out that I was clearly not stating what "I think" about the Robert
Huggins thing....only what I remembered the issue to be about since you
didn't seem to know or who was involved.
I have no opinion one way or the other about whether Robert Huggins was
cheating on TEN, because I don't have enough information about the issue to
make a decision (other than bits and pieces of memory and lots of
speculation from others which isn't valid enough for me to form an opinion).
I just want to make sure that is clear to you?
It seems to me that setting yourself up as "safekeeper of the group's
sanity" is beyond a reasonable interpretation of your role with the RASCAR
group? Maybe you disagree? But, wouldn't it have been just as easy to just
make a post on r.a.s. and say, "I have a request from a Robert Huggins to
race in RASCAR. Does anyone have a problem with that? If so, email me
privately. If not, I will issue a car number to Robert." I don't know,
John....its just a suggestion.
Regards,
Tom
> > If you are talking about Robert Huggins, then I think you better go do
some
> > deep research of the issues
> Tom, you are one of the very few people (you, Robert, and manybe one
> other person) that thinks he was railroaded. Like I said, it's not my
> job to deal with the controversy - it's my job to make sure everyone
> in RASCAR has as pure a racing environment as possible.
> I refused his membership for the good and sanity of the group. It
> wasn't personal.
And there were "troubles" with BHM and several other "teams" in
NROS....which was completely full of holes as you very well know. Some
people took advantage of them and some didn't. So what?
TP
PS: I liked your "ding - ding - ding" post, by the way. I figured it would
make your week to get Greg and I going at it again here on r.a.s. This
place has been kind of quiet and docile for you lately, huh?
> <yawn>
> Papy said he was. I don't care for whatever political or real reason. He
> was. End of story. They don't have to prove it to their customers.
> > He's a member of Black Hole Motorsports still,
> Yeah and there was never trouble with this team on the NROS <roll eyes>
> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...
So long ago can't remember all the details but I always felt he was an
honorable sort of guy, at least he came right out and said as much.
Cheating is so pakaged now anyone could do it if they wanted. I would say
give him a chance as we do anyone. Im kinda curious the arbitrary banning
based on heresay in Rascar.
Mitch
> <ding ding ding>
> > Banned arbitrarily? He agreed to the rules when signing up for TEN.
> <ding ding ding>
> > This your annual attempt at re-writing sim history?
> <ding ding ding>
> I raced RHuggins online on Hawaii and he surely had something funny going on
> (cant remember what exactly but nitrous gives a hint g) but he said so much
> when I chatted with him after the race. Something along the lines of
> "testing the system for Papy".
> So long ago can't remember all the details but I always felt he was an
> honorable sort of guy, at least he came right out and said as much.
> Cheating is so pakaged now anyone could do it if they wanted. I would say
> give him a chance as we do anyone. Im kinda curious the arbitrary banning
> based on heresay in Rascar.
But does it really matter much after 5 years ?
Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"
http://www.theuspits.com
"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--
But, I also respect John Simmon's right to make his own decision and bar
Huggins from racing, as long as the RASCAR "group" of drivers have given him
that power and/or responsibility previously. I'm not sure if they have or
not, and really, its not any of my business since I don't race with those
guys.
TP
> > I raced RHuggins online on Hawaii and he surely had something funny
going on
> > (cant remember what exactly but nitrous gives a hint g) but he said so
much
> > when I chatted with him after the race. Something along the lines of
> > "testing the system for Papy".
> > So long ago can't remember all the details but I always felt he was an
> > honorable sort of guy, at least he came right out and said as much.
> > Cheating is so pakaged now anyone could do it if they wanted. I would
say
> > give him a chance as we do anyone. Im kinda curious the arbitrary
banning
> > based on heresay in Rascar.
> Robert was caught running a non standard game, that much is clear as I
> believe he has admitted as much, the reasons *why* he did so is another
> matter and only Robert himself and a few guys who worked for Papy/TEN
> back then knows the full story, the rest of us can only guess based on
> rumors and hearsay
> But does it really matter much after 5 years ?
> Beers and cheers
> (uncle) Goy
> "goyl at nettx dot no"
> http://www.theuspits.com
> "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
> --Groucho Marx--
> So long ago can't remember all the details but I always felt he was an
> honorable sort of guy, at least he came right out and said as much.
> Cheating is so pakaged now anyone could do it if they wanted. I would say
> give him a chance as we do anyone. Im kinda curious the arbitrary banning
> based on heresay in Rascar.
> Mitch
> > > Huggins was cheating waaay before TEN. And you, Tom not only were
> > > you NOT on Hawaii but you didn't show up on TEN until some
> > > time after it was running.
> > <ding ding ding>
> > > Banned arbitrarily? He agreed to the rules when signing up for TEN.
> > <ding ding ding>
> > > This your annual attempt at re-writing sim history?
> > <ding ding ding>
> I somewhat agree and Rascar could solve a bigger problem by banning Tom
> Pabst. Seriously, Tom Pabst will do more damage to a league then Huggins
> ever would! It has been proven!
Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"
http://www.theuspits.com
"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--
