rec.autos.simulators

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Rob Berryhill

I'd wager that you could quite easily quadruple the number of people who
watch nascar and you still wouldnt reach the viewing figures of F1.

Just because Amerian Baseball is called the 'world series' doesnt mean that
the world doesnt exist west of LA or East of NY

Doug

Nascar 2002 tracks ?
Aparantly exceedingly so. I appologise for not knowing the exact details but
a drive was quoted as laughing outloud for the first ever lap he did at a
Nascar oval - when questioned why by his spotter - he said it was because
the track was identical to how he'd seen it in N2k2 or N4.

They're not bad. Some are way off. But it's a bit difficult to model a track
that a) Hasnt existed for 20+ years, or b) Has been butchered and rebuilt a
dozen times.  the 'ring is outstandingly accurate - and that would make
sense being as it is the only GPL track that exists in pretty much the same
layout as it did 40 years ago.

If F1RC can get them perfect ( they are a little smooth - but layout wise -
accurate to a T) then why cant F12k2?   Some parts of Silverstone in F12k2
make me laugh out loud each time I see them they're so innacurate.

However - I dont know exactly why you presumed it was for the inaccuracy of
tracks that I was slating F12k2 - because I never mentioned it.  Innacurate
though they are - they can be considered perfection itself when compared to
the Internet code.  Papy brought out mature net code 4 years ago - and just
about perfected it with N2k2 - yet we have to deal with
half-an-effort-that-doesnt-really-work with F12k2.

And the next person who says "you need broadband to race online nowadays" -
NO YOU ***Y DONT - I can race N2k2 down a 56k perfectly well thank you.
It's lazy and bad programming that means one can not do the same in F12k2 -
NOTHING else.

Doug

I spent 3 years playing GPL on and off.  But I dont want to play it anymore.
I know a LOT of GPL regulars who have outgrown GPL.   The lack of a proper
tyre model is one reason ( it feels dead compared to N2k2 imho) and more
advance graphics and net code being another. If thats a crime - I hate to
see what you'd say to a ***er

I now drive N2k2. Not because I like nascar's - infact I LOATH them, I HATE
them, i deteste EVERYTHING ABOUT THEM. They're fat, ugly, unrefined, the
handle like shit on road courses. All the tracks are crap, left ,left, left.
And when you do get a road course -it's a waste of time when you're driving
a tank.

Despite all of that - I drive N2k2 because it's the best racing simulator
out there.  I think that's a pretty shit situation to be in - dont you?

Doug

Have you actually driven F1 2002?  I am not an F1 fanatic and therefore don't
know all the little ins and outs of the tracks, but I do know a few things.
The elevation change after the banking bridge at Monza heading into Ascari is
not a sharp change and not incredibly uneven and bumpy.  Also, since when does
the bend just before Spoon at Suzuka cause the car to nearly crash from
bottoming out that hard over bumps?  And I never realized that there were bumps
so large in the braking zone for Les Combes at Spa that you could see them like
speed bumps from TV cameras...  F1 2002 has a great physics model, but the
tracks just look sloppy.

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Dan Belcher
Webmaster,
http://www.gplworld.racesim.net/simcrash

http://jayski.thatsracin.com/pages/tvratings.htm

Nascar seems to get between 4.5 and 6.5 million viewers.  It's impossible to
guage how many people watch overseas - but I REALLY dont expect it to be
very many at all. Perhaps as many again - so call it 12 million per race
world wide. ( The 'Tona 500 was a one off at 10.9 million viewers)

For formula one - you can usually only find the total number of people who
watch an F1 race thru the year - which was 54 billion for 2001. (
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport/hi/english/motorsport/formula_one/newsid_...
/1842217.stm )

If we take that on a per-race basis of watching the race, qualifing and
highlights, and 5 news bulletins including race news - thats 144 viewings
per person in a year.   54 billion / 144 = 375 Million viewers.

375 Million viewers for F1.   12 Million for Nascar.

Even if both are out by 50% - in Nascars favour - lets call it 187 for F1
and 24 Nascar.

F1 has a viewership of 779% that of Nascar.  And thats making the figures
about as nascar biased as I can possibly make them.  Taking my first
figures - it's more like and F1 viewership 3125% that of Nascar.

So there you go - some figure to back THAT up

Doug

As you didn't state why you found F1 2002 so poor, I assumed that it was the track
modelling. That seems to be the worst aspect amongst this community, although it doesn't
exactly ruin a fantastic game, IMO.
Net code doesn't match Papyrus games, but, again, it doesn't matter so much to a lot of
people.

Of course I've played it  and there are thousands of others who have as well , but there
is only a small minority whining that the elevation changes are not spot on at Monza ! You
really must have an intimate knowledge of all these tracks, and for that I admire you.
But, why don't you respond the part of my post that suggest the GPL tracks are completely
unrealistic due to the age and lack of information about most of them. Does that ruin any
enjoyment you may have had while playing GPL ? I think not. And as I have no idea if these
modern tracks are realistically detailed or not, except the Nurburgring first bend:-( , I
won't let minor details stop me enjoying what is the best driving sim currently available.

WHAT THE ***

Straw pole for RAS of features in the perfect sim

1) Physics
2) Net code.

WITHOUT DOUBT

Doug

F12002's tracks are generally poorly modelled. There is very little in the
way of camber, there are bumps where there are none on thier real-life
counterparts, and no bumps where there should be in certain places. Some
tracks are much wider than the real thing, some too narrow, the grass is
extremely grippy...and some of the corners are just plain wrong...and badly
so at that...I could go on but it's bumming me out just thinking about it.
What offsets this for me though is that the driving model is a lot of fun,
though I don't believe entirely accurate either. It's the closest anyone has
come to GPL so far (personal opinion, YMMV).

The tracks in GP4 are really well done, they seem to have captured a lot of
the subtle details (ie camber changes, slight elevation
changes)...unfortunately the driving model is about as exciting to drive as
watching a wet plank warp in the sun.

I'd hate to think that GPL will be the high water mark of open wheel racing
simulations, but lately that's what it looks like from my perspective.

TJ

GET A LIFE, OUTSIDE OF RAS, PERHAPS !    SEE , I HAVE A CAPS LOCK TOO. VERY CLEVER.
Do you seriously think that only people who subscribe to this NG are the one's who are
playing racing sims  ?????

Of course I dont.

But I'd guarentee you the same results in serious sim racers world wide

DOug

Maybe the grass seems grippy because of the traction control.

Watching and attending are two different things. I wouldn't be surpised that
NASCAR events get more bodies thru the turnstiles than F1. Remember, oval
racing is more spectator friendly. At the typical F1 event, you're watching
a fraction of the action. F1 is probably BETTER on TV than live. NASCAR just
the opposite.

Average 200,000 people over 3 days to a GP over 18 races = 3.6 million.

About 1% of the total F1-on-TV watching public

Doug