rec.autos.simulators

by **Justin Rya** » Fri, 08 Nov 1996 04:00:00

I can't believe that someone out there thinks you can adjust the camber on
a solid rear axle vehicle.

by **Mike Schreine** » Fri, 08 Nov 1996 04:00:00

> I can't believe that someone out there thinks you can adjust the camber on
> a solid rear axle vehicle.

You can't in real life, the nascar guys used to "adjust" the camber on
the rear of their cars by running larger tires(bias ply) on the right
rear. But the introduction of radial tires prevents this(something to do
with the sidewalls being in-flexible).

In the Nascar game you can if you hex edit the program. This has been a
topic under heated debate under the heading "Hawaii Cheating". Some
people have done this and think it is perfectly fair since no where does
it say "hacking of the progam is against the rules". You would think
this would be understood but apparently not.

Mick in Tampa

by **moti..** » Sat, 09 Nov 1996 04:00:00

> I can't believe that someone out there thinks you can adjust the camber on
> a solid rear axle vehicle.

ahh but you can they have done it in nascar before. but after in the
middle of 92 they changed the rules that you can only have so much
degrees camber in the rear axel. i think -3 or something like that i
forget id have to look back in 1 of my old races i have on tape to
actually check it out. its spring martinsville or nwilkes race of 92...

by **P. Campbe** » Sat, 09 Nov 1996 04:00:00

>I can't believe that someone out there thinks you can adjust the camber on
>a solid rear axle vehicle.

You haven't kept up with NASCAR racing for the last few years then. Back
in '91, Harry Gant won four straight races in a car that had a
cambered rear end. Bill Elliott pulled the same trick in early '92.

Well, everybody else started running cambered rear ends, until axles
started breaking. After a rash of broken axles, NASCAR decided to make a
rule limiting the amount of camber that the teams could use in the rear end.

Rear end camber is not adjustable at the track, it has to be built into
the axle housing.

Pat
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pat Campbell The Chevy Monte Carlo 6,94,88,16,4,25
Lexington, AL NASCAR's Wide Load War Eagle!!!

Home Page: http://fly.hiwaay.net/~pscampbe/pscindex.html
NASCAR Stats: http://fly.hiwaay.net/~pscampbe/nascstat.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

by **P. Campbe** » Sat, 09 Nov 1996 04:00:00

>You can't in real life, the nascar guys used to "adjust" the camber on
>the rear of their cars by running larger tires(bias ply) on the right
>rear. But the introduction of radial tires prevents this(something to do
>with the sidewalls being in-flexible).

NO NO NO, this is tire stagger. It has nothing to do with camber. Camber
is built into the rear ends of WC cars, and there is a limit as to how
much camber the teams can run.

Tire stagger is the use of larger radius tires on the right side (to make
the car turn left). In the days of bias plys, this was adjusted by
putting more air in the tires. The bias plys would "grow" as they were
inflated. Radials don't grow, they remain the same size. However, tire
pressure is still a major adjustment, because it changes the "spring rate"
of a radial tire.

Stagger IS still used, however. It's just that Goodyear has to build
stagger into the tires, and everyone runs the same amount.

Pat
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pat Campbell The Chevy Monte Carlo 6,94,88,16,4,25
Lexington, AL NASCAR's Wide Load War Eagle!!!

Home Page: http://fly.hiwaay.net/~pscampbe/pscindex.html
NASCAR Stats: http://fly.hiwaay.net/~pscampbe/nascstat.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

by **Randy Peppl** » Sat, 09 Nov 1996 04:00:00

>>You can't in real life, the nascar guys used to "adjust" the camber on
>>the rear of their cars by running larger tires(bias ply) on the right
>>rear. But the introduction of radial tires prevents this(something to do
>>with the sidewalls being in-flexible).
>NO NO NO, this is tire stagger. It has nothing to do with camber. Camber
>is built into the rear ends of WC cars, and there is a limit as to how
>much camber the teams can run.
>Tire stagger is the use of larger radius tires on the right side (to make
>the car turn left). In the days of bias plys, this was adjusted by
>putting more air in the tires. The bias plys would "grow" as they were
>inflated. Radials don't grow, they remain the same size. However, tire
>pressure is still a major adjustment, because it changes the "spring rate"
>of a radial tire.
>Stagger IS still used, however. It's just that Goodyear has to build
>stagger into the tires, and everyone runs the same amount.

Pat

I hate to disagree with you on this one since I respect your opinion
and your racing ability so much..but if you add a larger amount of
stagger at the rear end you do induce an amount of camber..
If the centre of the axles are at different heights due to camber,
then the tires cannot sit flat on the track..the axle would have to be
level for that to happen..so yes..you can put small amounts of camber
into the rear by adding stagger..not huge amounts..but some..

Randy

by **Wade Tschi** » Sat, 09 Nov 1996 04:00:00

> > I can't believe that someone out there thinks you can adjust the camber on
> > a solid rear axle vehicle.

> You can't in real life, the nascar guys used to "adjust" the camber on
> the rear of their cars by running larger tires(bias ply) on the right
> rear. But the introduction of radial tires prevents this(something to do
> with the sidewalls being in-flexible).

> In the Nascar game you can if you hex edit the program. This has been a
> topic under heated debate under the heading "Hawaii Cheating". Some
> people have done this and think it is perfectly fair since no where does
> it say "hacking of the progam is against the rules". You would think
> this would be understood but apparently not.

> Mick in Tampa

There are a couple of ways to adjust camber in a "solid" axle car. If you truly
have 1 piece solid axles, you can "tweak" the axle tubes to get a couple
degrees of camber + or - depending on Left or Right. The "slop" that allows for
this is in the "spool" or "carrier" splines in the center of the "pumpkin".
This is *** stuff, and yes it occasionally breaks axles-but it is a tactic
that is used. Another way to accomplish this (as done in Winston Cup and
others) is utilized when using "floater" axles. These axles are a shaft which
is splined into a drive plate. The drive plate is attached to the rearend
housing via the bearing. This bearing/retainer/drive-plate can be tilted. The
splines inside the drive plate are "convexed", and thus creates a "universal-
joint" effect. This method is good for upto 6 degrees (way more than
necessary). Just FYI ;-).

Happy Lappin'
Wade Tschida

by **P. Campbe** » Sun, 10 Nov 1996 04:00:00

>I hate to disagree with you on this one since I respect your opinion
>and your racing ability so much..but if you add a larger amount of
>stagger at the rear end you do induce an amount of camber..

This is true Randy, and I'm glad you pointed it out. However, the
original poster indicated that the teams used stagger to change
camber--and this isn't true. The reason for increasing stagger
was simply to make the car turn easier.

What is true is that, when you change the amount of stagger, you
must change camber to keep as much of the tire on the pavement.
I could see in a race situation, however, where they might change
stagger to adjust to a bad camber setting.

Pat

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pat Campbell The Chevy Monte Carlo 6,94,88,16,4,25
Lexington, AL NASCAR's Wide Load War Eagle!!!

Home Page: http://fly.hiwaay.net/~pscampbe/pscindex.html
NASCAR Stats: http://fly.hiwaay.net/~pscampbe/nascstat.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

by **Alan Tinde** » Wed, 20 Nov 1996 04:00:00

Radials do change size, they just don't get taller. Adjustment in air
changes the tire patch size. Less are increases the size of the
patch. Too little air can cause the tire to wear on the edges. More
air decreases the size of the patch and decreases tire temperature.

Weekend Racer. Gotta Lovitt
work hard and spend your money
racing.

Go 24

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