rec.autos.simulators

Can't really give any opinion on the other games, but you can run gpl with a
joypad, or even the keyboard.

HOWEVER, if you map the throttle or brake to a 'digital' control like a
button, the relevant driving aid will be enabled regardless of whether you
select it or not in the options page. The steering will also be alot less
sensitive, but if you've driven with a joypad before you'll probably be used
to that anyway.

This is not the best way to get the most out of gpl, but it will work.

If you're looking for a cheap wheel & pedals in the UK, try BRD's online
shop & see if they have any of the shop soiled F1-Racer sets left. Nice
wheel, poor pedals, but waaay better than a joypad ;-)

Malc.

  I'm in the US.

 I don't see how I'd have the space for a steering wheel.  I have a
stick/throttle combo for my flight sims and I end up using a gamepad mostly
because they are so big and my desk isn't, also it's a pain to try and get
alot of games to accept multiple controllers.  Then you have to configure
every darn button on the things for every game...

  I bought a Thrustmaster steering wheel to use with Gran Turismo 3 on my
PS2, but I concluded after using it a short while that : A) I wasn't driving
any better (worse, in fact) (but GT3 doesn't let you calibrate that simple
of a wheel, only a Logitech, that could be a reason) B) it was bulky, but
fortunately I was in the living room so had some space to put a table up
temporarily C) felt stupid spending 40 bucks on something that didn't help
me drive any better.  So I sold it on Ebay.  The only periphreal besides a
gamepad I use now on my PS2 is a lightgun.

I also don't have much in the way of desk space, so when I want to play GPL
I move the keyboard out of the way and plug the wheel in. One you have set
up GPL you don't have to reconfigure every button (not that there are many
to configure).

David Corless

The Joystick lacks the precise control in small movements that you get with
a wheel, but it doesn't take up much room, and is easy to put away. You
really need the pedals too though, trying to accelerate/brake with the
Y-axis is too hard.

If you're handy with DIY you could find a cheap 2 axis joystick & use the
pots & wiring loom to make up some pedals. My pedals are based on an old
Wingman Extreme Digital PCB & wiring, giving me the option to add a clutch
later with the Z-axis 'throttle' later if I decide to.

It's not pretty, but it's cheap!

Malc.

There exist some handheld miniwheels if space is the problem, with all
analog throttle and brake.  Don't remember the name though but IRC they cost
about 40 $.  They look like those remote controls for RC cars.

Tom

I have several friends that I introduced to GPL and they use the same
gamepad exclusively.  Gravis also has a new force feedback analog gamepad
that I have used - the BIG difference is that it has much more accuracy on
the analog steering + plus gas and brake triggers very similar to an XBox or
old Sega Dreamcast controller.

-Dave

IMO, you need an analogue controller with a good amount of travel to make
realistic racing games like GPL worth playing.  I have a bunch of
controllers and have no problem driving with my MS Sidewinder2 joystick,
but it's hopeless with my Hammerhead (which is a gamepad with those same
stubby analogue mini-sticks).
If you go the joystick route, though, make sure you have analogue controls
for gas & brake.    

Yes, but to get the most out of gpl you need anolouge inputs for the brake,
throttle and steering, so if you're going the gamepad route try and get one
with 3 sets of anolouge sticks? on them and you'll be fine.(though I can't
imagine how you could use them all at once just using your hands)

Arcadey, but interesting to try out.   ;o)

Elrikk

  I used to play Gran Turismo 3 on the PS2 using the first stick for
turning, and the other stick for gas/brake.  I switched to using 2
buttons for gas/brake though because I actually found I was getting
better times than with the analogue stick. It's not quite as fine a
control as an analogue trigger, but the PS2 has pressure-sensitive
buttons.

  I forgot about it, but there's a racing controller for the
Playstation called the Negcon (made by Namco, I think) that is
suppossed to be pretty good.  I haven't tried it.  I have a PSX-PC USB
adapter, so I might try this out.

  I got Gran Prix Legends in the mail a couple of days ago.  It runs
without a hitch on Windows XP, and I can play it with a gamepad, but
the controls are very, very touchy.  After fooling around for a couple
of hours with it, though, I've come to the conclusion that while it's
a good game, It's not my cup of tea, just too much over my head.  Some
"issues" I have with it:

1) There's only one adjustment you can make to the stick: linearity
vs. nonlinearity.  The control setup seems optimized for a gamewheel
with gas/brake pedals.  No deadzone, no sensitivity settings.  It's
only slightly more touchy than Gran Turismo 3, but it's enough to make
the control very, very hard.

2) Widescreen only?  Black bars?  Uggghhh.  I have a 19 inch monitor
so I can make everything bigger and easier to see, and widescreen
pretty much defeats the purpose.

3) Where's a speedometer?  I can't ever tell how fast I'm going. Im
not a racing expert, maybe the cars didn't have them?  The old Stunts
game (DOS) didn't have a speedometer for the F1 car, just a
tachometer.  Still, it would be nice to have a virtual display.  Add
on a map to this like in Need for Speed Porsche.

4) Unwavering difficulty.  It's a very demanding game.  Perhaps too
much for my tastes.  Not enough settings to ease the learning curve.
I always finish last.

  So, I think I'll just hang onto GPL.  Not point in reselling it (not
worth much in resell).  Who knows, I may grow into it yet.

  I also got Superbike 2001 last week.  It seems to do everything
right.  Lots of difficulty settings and realism settings.  No overhead
map, but then you can set the game up to warn you or start slowing
down on curves.  Also, the guages don't scale with the resolution-
they get smaller the higher you go.  It's very playable with a gamepad
analogue stick, although I tend to not make as smooth banking as the
AI drivers.  On easy I can easily beat all the other bikes at Monza,
and on full realism I crash and burn al the time.

You can adjust the car setup to make it more or less twitchy, and having a
slider rather than just a tick box for steering linearity is pretty good
imo. Have you tried DXTweak for the deadzone adjustment? That sort of
setting is for your controller, not any particular game I should think.

When the game was originally released it was a very demanding game  on the
PC hardware availabe at the time. iirc the black bars were a way to raise
the framerate with minimal loss of information.
Four years on & I'm used to it, but I don't think I'd get any useful
information from a bit of extra sky or road anyway.

As a rule, racing vehicles don't have a speedo, since they are just trying
to go as fast as they can. If you press F10 you get a more 'arcade' view
from above & behind the car. This view shows your speed, although the
digital revcounter is harder to read than the analogue one in the***pit.

No argument there ;-) It's no arcade racer!

The thing to bear in mind with gpl & similar sims is that they go for
realism as much as possible.
Hence the pitboard times are one lap behind (except the Nurburgring & Le
Mans Sarthe) and hence the relative lack of trackmaps & on screen displays.
If they didn't have it in '67, you don't get it in the race!

If you can master it, it's worth it, but it's not everyone's cup of tea.

Malc.

  That DXTweak won't work with Windows XP.

  Sounds kind of fishy.  I know Doom and Outlaws ran faster in a
smaller screen, but most of the slowdown in GPL is caused by geometry
being processed by the CPU (combined with sound and physics), not by
the number of pixels that must be rendered (which is relatively low-
the textures aren't even 16 bit, I don't think). There would have been
other ways to optimize the game without the window).  Maybe they
thought it would be cool.  I just find it annoying.

  My "fix" for this is to run the gamem in an odd screen resolution,
one I dont normally use, and alter the screen size by making it bigger
so it zooms in.  It's not perfect.

  It's still demanding.  The framerate is low with a full pack of cars
(but not unplayable).  It also has ridiculous amounts of popup.  It's
just very old code that doesn't seem to benefit as much from modern
graphics cards (Radeon 9700 here).  But that's the case with alot of
sims.

  Yeah, but how do you know if you are going too fast to make a turn?

  It also didn't make much effort to be accessable to casual gamers.
I'm not asking for Test Drive or Need for Speed here.  It's not all
"black and white".

  That's the same problem I have with flight sims now days.  All the
*** nutjobs who get off on their 200 dollar flightsticks, well,
they see everything black and white.  It's either a sim, or an
"arcade" game.  Throw in one padlock too many, make the radar a little
too easy to use, and suddenly the game becomes Afterburner and they
all whine like little ***es.  I've been a flight sim player since
1984 and F-15 Strike Eagle, but I don't know what's happened to the
"fun" in sims anymore.  I guess all the real gamers gave up on sims
around the time Falcon started getting big and the manual got heavy
enough to beat somebody to death with.

The smart alec answer would be "when you're spitting hay out of your mouth
*** upside down", but the sensible answer is you guage your "speed" in
general terms by the gear you are in and the revs you are pulling.  Tring
to pin a specific MPH/KPH speed on any corner and using that is a bit dodgy
in my opinion- it will vary according to the car you're driving and the
attitude you take into the turn.

cheers
John