rec.autos.simulators

by Je » Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:00:00

I'm purely guessing here (don't slay me Rick G!) that because the
physics model slows you down on grass, it slows that particular tyre
and not the rest causing your outside edge to move faster that the
side on the grass and push you round.

When I've driven cars for real and clipped grass I tend to
straightline. I've never had a car "swing around" on me before.

Yeah! I reckon it's why so many peopl have damn fast laps around
tracks. In Indycar 1, you could use it to slignshot around the fast
bend before the corkscrew.

Another thing I'd like to see is improved simulation of tyre screech.

I've driven around with constant tyre noise when I'm nowhere near the
limit! Surely the physics model knows when your approaching, on and
over the limit. I'd love to get the classic "Squeak near, Squeal on,
and Squall over" sounds with tyres. Spins would be more realistic.

If you've ever heard a race cars spind for real it's the sound of the
tyres squalling which add the the sensation.

Here Here!

Jed
The Pits
www.ukps.com/thepits

by **Matthew Birger Patri Knuts** » Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:00:00

One slight bother when I`m racing in nascar, is what happens when you put your
inside wheel on the grass while going round a bend. What happens is that the
car "pulls" towards the inside, or oversteers fiercely. I find this
unrealistic: the car should respond by sliding outwards, as it only has 50% of
the traction it should. Mind you, it can be really useful, especially at Sears
point, leading up to the Caroussel... This type of behavoiur is o.k if all
four wheels are on the grass. One thisng that Mr. Genter also should
seriously consider, is that when you travel across grass on hot slicks, the
car will definitely lose traction for a few hundred metres. It is far too
tempting to "cheat" to achieve fast lap times on the road courses....I do not
know if these phenomenon occur in Indycar, though.

**Thanks for giving us a REALLY GOOD game, Papyrus!!!!***

*******FEAR#23!********

by **Mike Carrother** » Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:00:00

Birger Patri Knutsen) writes:

>One slight bother when I`m racing in nascar, is what happens when you
put your
>inside wheel on the grass while going round a bend. What happens is
that the
>car "pulls" towards the inside, or oversteers fiercely. I find this
>unrealistic: the car should respond by sliding outwards, as it only
has 50% of
>the traction it should. Mind you, it can be really useful, especially
at Sears
>point, leading up to the Caroussel... This type of behavoiur is o.k if
all
>four wheels are on the grass. One thisng that Mr. Genter also should
>seriously consider, is that when you travel across grass on hot
slicks, the
>car will definitely lose traction for a few hundred metres. It is far
too
>tempting to "cheat" to achieve fast lap times on the road courses....I
do not
>know if these phenomenon occur in Indycar, though.

>**Thanks for giving us a REALLY GOOD game, Papyrus!!!!***

>*******FEAR#23!********

I don't know if you've driven a race car on a track, but I have, and
let me tell you, stick that LF wheel on the grass (or flat asphalt) and
you will spin quickly. What happens is the LF will drop, thus pulling
the weight off of the RR and then your gone.

Not fun in a real car.

Mike

by **TOBY BRANFO** » Wed, 24 Jan 1996 04:00:00

JJ> Another thing I'd like to see is improved simulation of tyre
JJ> screech.

JJ> I've driven around with constant tyre noise when I'm nowhere near
JJ> the limit! Surely the physics model knows when your approaching, on
JJ> and over the limit. I'd love to get the classic "Squeak near, Squeal
JJ> on, and Squall over" sounds with tyres. Spins would be more
JJ> realistic.

I'm with you on this. Loads of frustrations with ICR2, but some are
perhaps resolving......

Does the car sometimes slide.....particularly all or just the
fronts.....with no indication from the game other than the car diving
into a wall?

I'm familiar with braking apparently in the same place from the same
speed and the car just going straight on (eg start-finish of the Glen or
top of the hill at Laguna). No tyre squeal in the game. No smaoke etc on
the replays. I'm wondering if the physics model is simulating a locked-
up slide, but the sim isn't telling you?

I know what you mean about the tyre screech sometimes bearing little
connection with whether you slide on a corner....but does the opposite
also apply?

Could this be "improved" with a patch for a newer version Rick?

Cheers!

---
* RM 1.3 U0414 * Always proof read carefully to see if you any words out.

by **Matthew Birger Patri Knuts** » Wed, 31 Jan 1996 04:00:00

>Subject: Re: Nascar realism
>Date: 22 Jan 1996 19:31:48 GMT

>Birger Patri Knutsen) writes:

>>One slight bother when I`m racing in nascar, is what happens when you
>put your
>>inside wheel on the grass while going round a bend. What happens is
>that the
>>car "pulls" towards the inside, or oversteers fiercely. I find this
>>unrealistic: the car should respond by sliding outwards, as it only
>has 50% of
>>the traction it should. Mind you, it can be really useful, especially
>at Sears
>>point, leading up to the Caroussel... This type of behavoiur is o.k if
>all
>>four wheels are on the grass. One thisng that Mr. Genter also should
>>seriously consider, is that when you travel across grass on hot
>slicks, the
>>car will definitely lose traction for a few hundred metres. It is far
>too
>>tempting to "cheat" to achieve fast lap times on the road courses....I
>do not
>>know if these phenomenon occur in Indycar, though.

>>**Thanks for giving us a REALLY GOOD game, Papyrus!!!!***

>>*******FEAR#23!********
>I don't know if you've driven a race car on a track, but I have, and
>let me tell you, stick that LF wheel on the grass (or flat asphalt) and
>you will spin quickly. What happens is the LF will drop, thus pulling
>the weight off of the RR and then your gone.
>Not fun in a real car.
>Mike

Hi Mike!

Actually, I am a part-time racer, part-time mechanic in a race car team, and
have tried lots of different race cars (#23 is me). I think you have
misunderstood me slightly: O.K, an example. Turn 1 at Watkins Glen. When I
turn in, I am travelling at 70 MPH+, at the apex, the LR an LF tires support
much more load than the RH tires (because of horizontal G-loads, and chassis
roll) If I hit a patch of oil with my RH tires only, this would not have an
extreme effect on the balance of the car in the middle of the turn. If I hit
the oil with my LH tires, I would lose grip, and spin. When I race in real
life, many of the turns on the tracks I run at can be negotiated quicker if
you put your inside wheels over the (flat only) kerbs or grass verge, making a
smoother line through the turn, and scrubbing off less speed. I currently run
on grooved tires: I would use this technique to a smaller extent if I was
running slicks. If I try the same manovre in NASCAR (back to turn 1), the car
oversteers, and pulls to the right with the front, while all physic laws say
that I lose some grip, and the centrifugal force rather should "pull" the car
to the left. If I was in a wild slide, with lots of opposite lock when I put
my wheels on the grass, the loss of RH traction would snap the car the other
way (still to the left) because of the grip being on the loaded side.

I hope some of this makes sense....

Cheers,
Matt

by **Hugo Dilhuyd** » Thu, 01 Feb 1996 04:00:00

> >Subject: Re: Nascar realism
> >Date: 22 Jan 1996 19:31:48 GMT

> >Birger Patri Knutsen) writes:

> >>One slight bother when I`m racing in nascar, is what happens when you
> >put your
> >>inside wheel on the grass while going round a bend. What happens is
> >that the
> >>car "pulls" towards the inside, or oversteers fiercely. I find this
> >>unrealistic: the car should respond by sliding outwards, as it only
> >has 50% of
> >>the traction it should. Mind you, it can be really useful, especially
> >at Sears
> >>point, leading up to the Caroussel... This type of behavoiur is o.k if
> >all
> >>four wheels are on the grass. One thisng that Mr. Genter also should
> >>seriously consider, is that when you travel across grass on hot
> >slicks, the
> >>car will definitely lose traction for a few hundred metres. It is far
> >too
> >>tempting to "cheat" to achieve fast lap times on the road courses....I
> >do not
> >>know if these phenomenon occur in Indycar, though.

From my experience with ICR1, when driving in a curve on a track,

if you slightly touch the grass you just "bump" like if you were
touching a "vibreur" <- don't know the english word !!!,

if you put the whole wheel on the grass and keep it there 1 or 2 sec.
then you oversteer and eventually spin, and I agree with you this is
not logical unless there is something happening with the rear wheel
that I don't understand ?

Finally, if you put the whole car on the grass then you logically
lose traction, understeer... and go back on the track with a
dangerous lateral speed though !!! And as you said, since there
is no damage to the tires, this can be helpful: for example I do
"cheat" in Portland at the end of the straight line by going 4 wheels
on the grass inside the curve to finish my late braking while
turning...

by **Mike Carrother** » Thu, 01 Feb 1996 04:00:00

Birger Patri Knutsen) writes:

>>Subject: Re: Nascar realism
>>Date: 22 Jan 1996 19:31:48 GMT

>>Birger Patri Knutsen) writes:

>>>One slight bother when I`m racing in nascar, is what happens when
you
>>put your
>>>inside wheel on the grass while going round a bend. What happens is
>>that the
>>>car "pulls" towards the inside, or oversteers fiercely. I find this
>>>unrealistic: the car should respond by sliding outwards, as it only
>>has 50% of
>>>the traction it should. Mind you, it can be really useful,
especially
>>at Sears
>>>point, leading up to the Caroussel... This type of behavoiur is o.k
if
>>all
>>>four wheels are on the grass. One thisng that Mr. Genter also
should
>>>seriously consider, is that when you travel across grass on hot
>>slicks, the
>>>car will definitely lose traction for a few hundred metres. It is
far
>>too
>>>tempting to "cheat" to achieve fast lap times on the road
courses....I
>>do not
>>>know if these phenomenon occur in Indycar, though.

>>>**Thanks for giving us a REALLY GOOD game, Papyrus!!!!***

>>>*******FEAR#23!********

>>I don't know if you've driven a race car on a track, but I have, and
>>let me tell you, stick that LF wheel on the grass (or flat asphalt)
and
>>you will spin quickly. What happens is the LF will drop, thus pulling
>>the weight off of the RR and then your gone.

>>Not fun in a real car.

>>Mike

> Hi Mike!

> Actually, I am a part-time racer, part-time mechanic in a race
car team, and
>have tried lots of different race cars (#23 is me). I think you have
>misunderstood me slightly: O.K, an example. Turn 1 at Watkins Glen.
When I
>turn in, I am travelling at 70 MPH+, at the apex, the LR an LF tires
support
>much more load than the RH tires (because of horizontal G-loads, and
chassis
>roll) If I hit a patch of oil with my RH tires only, this would not
have an
>extreme effect on the balance of the car in the middle of the turn. If
I hit
>the oil with my LH tires, I would lose grip, and spin. When I race in
real
>life, many of the turns on the tracks I run at can be negotiated
quicker if
>you put your inside wheels over the (flat only) kerbs or grass verge,
making a
>smoother line through the turn, and scrubbing off less speed. I
currently run
>on grooved tires: I would use this technique to a smaller extent if
I was
>running slicks. If I try the same manovre in NASCAR (back to turn 1),
the car
>oversteers, and pulls to the right with the front, while all physic
laws say
>that I lose some grip, and the centrifugal force rather should "pull"
the car
>to the left. If I was in a wild slide, with lots of opposite lock when
I put
>my wheels on the grass, the loss of RH traction would snap the car the
other
>way (still to the left) because of the grip being on the loaded side.

> I hope some of this makes sense....

> Cheers,
> Matt

Matt-

I see your point now. I was thinking ovals. Thats how us "roundy
rounders" think. ;-)

Mike

by **Matthew Birger Patri Knuts** » Fri, 02 Feb 1996 04:00:00

>Subject: Re: Nascar realism
>Date: 31 Jan 1996 14:42:34 GMT
)

>Matt-
>I see your point now. I was thinking ovals. Thats how us "roundy
>rounders" think. ;-)
>Mike

O.K - now I see your point! Oval racing is totally strange to me - I think
the challenge is much greater because you don`t have any landmarks to go by
when braking, turning in etc. I really feel this in NR - I can manage one
really good lap, and the next is extremely hopeless. Only one I seem to get
right in NR is Martinsville, where there are some "visual aids". I`d just love
to try it out in real life - only problem is that the nearest oval suited for
cars is - you guessed it - across a large splash of water. Anyway, they are
starting a series over here (Norway - not supposed to be inhabitated) called
Norscar- for pre `81 U.S cars, based on NASCAR-like rules. And they are also
lobbying severly for allowing us to use the horse race tracks again, like we
could in the 60`s. Mind you, they are only dirt tracks, and I like tarmac.
They had a race on a horse track in Sweden last year for the Scandinavian
Camaro Cup - it was a thrill!! Pity they could only run 5 cars for 10 laps at
a time...

Matt.